FORUMS > St. Helens > Saints v Hull |
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47035_1386433761.gif We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47035.gif |
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| My thoughts were attacking wise we did ok. Made yards up the field and scored some tries.
All the forwards made decent carries.
The backs did as asked, but with no wingers to speak of and the jigglijiggling about for lomax the back 3 were always going to be limited in their effectiveness.
Hull were the better side and have better players, certainly in the pack.
They opened us up in the middle not out wide.
The big fault for us though was defensively. We can’t defend. We leave gaps, we number up wrong. But most importantly their attackers are better than our defenders.
The Greenwood try was a prime example. Greenwood stopped their number 8, but he is just not strong enough to hold him. No other players come in and he gets thrown off.
I'm not going to have a go at Greenwood saying he lacked effort. It's the difference between a 21 year old second rower v a 16 stone prop.
Give it a few more years and Greenwood maybe at a place that Taylor is now and would hold him longer.
But for me we have a lot of Greenwood type players.
Athletic and can run good lines, but one on one against a rampaging big prop they struggle or require numbers to effectively tackle.
This is key for me. Defending in the oppositions half we can throw those numbers in and look decent. But once it crosses the halfway line we stop pouring in with the same vigour. This makes sense as if you did a decent back will exploit the gaps. So it becomes more of a standing line and one on one defence and we don't do that we'll.
When I think about it Amor and Walmsley are our only top line props. We then have Tasi but he does not seem to have added any better than mose in defence. The rest are prospects. 21 year olds who we are way off prime. Ideally you would have one of them in the squad come match day. But we run with 2 or 3 regularly.
We need to pick our top prospect from this bunch and run with them as a bench player. But we have too many props that are second rower material.
Lms is about right for a good second rower, but he came as a prop.
We need more experienced forwards for games like today. Hard working, naturally big and fit. Not young lads barely out of university age trying to bulk up to take on one of the biggest packs in the league.
Personally if I was being harsh. I'd keep Amor, Roby, Walmsley (he's off the boil this year but his operation has put him back) Lms. We then need 2 props a second rower and loose forward, who can mix it with the best.
Then for me Savelio takes a bench spot with your 5th prop filled by your best academy prospect.
Obviously with injuries you will play more youngsters, but let's not fool ourselves that was pretty much a first choice forward pack today and we had 3 youth prospects on the pitch.
I've no doubt they are good, but just like lomax and gaskell, it's too many at once.
Speaking of which that old fella pryce is still going. How many years could we have got out of him. Gaskell and lomax would have been far better to have him as an experienced head around the halves.
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| The biggest game of the season for us (lets face it: we have never been this far away from winning the grand final) and we put our worst performance in. Questions have to be asked.
Those questioning Roby are insane. Honestly, what do you expect him to do? He's good, but he's not THAT good
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| Quote: Albion "Those questioning Roby are insane. Honestly, what do you expect him to do? He's good, but he's not THAT good'"
Insane? I don't see how really. He's been a legend for us over the years and his performances have been perhaps amongst the most consistent of any of our elite players over the decades. But time waits for no man and a man flogged irresponsibly since Cunningham retired will obviously feel the effects of that. It is without question that Roby is no longer the player he once was. He's not hitting as hard in defense, he's not making as many runs and he's not as dynamic or dangerous when making them now. Sure, he's having to struggle extra hard because we have such a beaten pack, but that's not the only reason his performances are not what they were. I'm not saying he's a bad player, far from it. He's class and will continue to be next season as well no doubt. But he's not the top hooker in Super League any more. He's not even the best British hooker anymore. He's not even in the top 3 anymore. This is another area Saints are massively failing on, he needs to be replaced now, not in two years. Signing a 32 year old Kiwi who plays less than Gary Wheeler isn't the answer either.
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47035_1386433761.gif We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47035.gif |
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| Quote: Saddened! "Insane? I don't see how really. He's been a legend for us over the years and his performances have been perhaps amongst the most consistent of any of our elite players over the decades. But time waits for no man and a man flogged irresponsibly since Cunningham retired will obviously feel the effects of that. It is without question that Roby is no longer the player he once was. He's not hitting as hard in defense, he's not making as many runs and he's not as dynamic or dangerous when making them now. Sure, he's having to struggle extra hard because we have such a beaten pack, but that's not the only reason his performances are not what they were. I'm not saying he's a bad player, far from it. He's class and will continue to be next season as well no doubt. But he's not the top hooker in Super League any more. He's not even the best British hooker anymore. He's not even in the top 3 anymore. This is another area Saints are massively failing on, he needs to be replaced now, not in two years. Signing a 32 year old Kiwi who plays less than Gary Wheeler isn't the answer either.'"
Probably not the top world hooker but easily in the top.2 in SL.
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| I made this point on another thread regarding Roby. I have the utmost respect for him and what he does for the team, but should your clubs marquee player really be someone who makes 40+ tackles per game and who's impact is so heavily reliant on the performance of his 5 other forwards? Surely a marquee should be a match winner? Someone who can turn a game on his own? As much as Roby is quality, im not sure he would fall into that category.
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15252_1297730111.jpg [color=#FF0000:dd3r80vu][b:dd3r80vu]I HATE ALL THE PIES[/b:dd3r80vu][/color:dd3r80vu]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_15252.jpg |
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| Quote: Saddened! "Insane? I don't see how really. He's been a legend for us over the years and his performances have been perhaps amongst the most consistent of any of our elite players over the decades. But time waits for no man and a man flogged irresponsibly since Cunningham retired will obviously feel the effects of that. It is without question that Roby is no longer the player he once was. He's not hitting as hard in defense, he's not making as many runs and he's not as dynamic or dangerous when making them now. Sure, he's having to struggle extra hard because we have such a beaten pack, but that's not the only reason his performances are not what they were. I'm not saying he's a bad player, far from it. He's class and will continue to be next season as well no doubt. But he's not the top hooker in Super League any more. He's not even the best British hooker anymore. He's not even in the top 3 anymore. This is another area Saints are massively failing on, he needs to be replaced now, not in two years. Signing a 32 year old Kiwi who plays less than Gary Wheeler isn't the answer either.'"
Perhaps KC could make it his next project and put Turner there?
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