All players are expected to cart the ball up, but you have to be given the ball first. The coach decides how the sets are to be played, the players do what they are told.

+1

I agree, the 13 role is just a extra prop and LMS isn't good enough In a beaten pack. He's all high fives and back patting when we put a big score on but nowhere to me seen when it matters.

Didn't rate him at London, he's had half a good season in his time here.

not sure i agree, but its about perception of the 13 role. I see it as somewhere between prop and second row. Coming onto the ball a little wider and in a bit more space.

Total rubbish, the lad is in his 4th season at saints and was brought in as a fourth prop, however due to other props being injured, he has always played and done his best. As you say you don't rate him but that's your opinion. I do rate him and hope he produces good work for the rest of the season and continues with his high fives and back patting when we score , that's what we call appreciation for a player who scores. What do you want the players to do , nothing ?

ive always been a big Clough fan.

However I will say that since he suffered a serious neck injury in I think 2011, he hasn't been quite the same.
I do recall that it was touch and go whether he would have to retire at one stage, and it does make you wonder how it has affected him physically as a player.

I still think he is a useful player to have around, one with a good attitude, hard working and consistent.

With regard to LMS I think he is suffering because he isn't really a front line prop. He isn't big enough.
We should play him either at 13 or in the second row, where he would add a bit of much needed size out wide.

I happen to think our packs big achilles heel is the second row, which is too lightweight. The better teams know if you muscle up against our front row, we don't have the option of moving the ball wide and using the backrowers to make the yards on the fringes. This by the way has the added advantage of stretching and tiring a defence, as they have to muscle up against the front row, then quickly slide wide to tackle big men running out wide. Then move back infield to tackle the props again.

Wire, Leeds, Castleford and Huddersfield all have backrowers in the 105kg+ bracket, ours are in the mid 90kg. That's giving away upto two stone in old money.
According to the official stats only Wigans backrow, is lighter than Saints of the top teams, however physically on the pitch O'loughlin, Farrell and Batemen look and play heavier. I suspect Wigan are under reporting their player size. As while Farrell for example isn't the biggest of backrowers I think there is no way he is lighter than Wilkin which is what the stats seem to show.

Here we go. Blinkered and naive is back with his do-gooding ramblings.

Vea for soliola actually goes some way to addressing that problem (which I wholeheartedly agree with you on).

Hopefully with the kids coming through, and a bit more tinkering, lms can be 6/7 choice prop but played wider in the second row (that said even our wide running second rowers are being played more like battering rams at the moment (see soliola)) and Wilkin into lock will give more size and balance to the pack. Lms, Vea and manu as second row options with Wilkin at lock looks a lot bigger for our back row options then we currently have (if we lose Manu, well hopefully bring another in/ Savelio)

On the original topic, always sad to see any player out for a long time with injury. Hope he makes a full recovery.

Are we still talking about LMS?