Is there anything to the Williams rumour? He seems like a very good player, I doubt Wigan would let him go or doubt he would even want to leave?

Fair enough having players like Roby and Soliola, who are tough tacklers but have a more [iquiet man[/i persona, but I'm afraid we have too many lads who are just lacking a bit in the face of a fierce challenge, whether that being by not competing physically, going hiding when we need them, sulking and whining, or panicking in defence.

When we all turn up and play to our potential 1-17, we are worthy of all the plaudits that Saints fans have been criticised of claiming for their "on paper team", but between having a couple of weak links in vital spots, some players performing very inconsistently and questionable selection policies, it may still leave us shy of a trophy for another year.

Unless we add some leadership and fire to the team we are going to win nothing unless we get very lucky. Walsh would be a potential captain if he stays but that still leaves us a couple of aggressive forwards short. I'd kill for another Scully, I'd even take another Sonny Nuckle at this moment in time.

Isn't his true of most teams at the moment though? The only 2 "leaders" in the comp at the moment are sinfield and o'loughlin imo, and they are both over 30. Warrington desperately need a leader, hull have been missing one for years to tie everything together, and Huddersfield couldn't compete on the big stage despite being the best team in the comp last year because they're leader is too busy dummy spitting.

The best leaders are home grown, (but that's not to say every home grown player can become a leader) - if graham had of stayed we'd of been set. Wellens imo is a good leader for the team (ducks for cover) but doesn't necessarily warrent long minutes. Personally, I'd like us to hand the captaincy to lomax next year, let him grow into the role and become a club wide voice. Another option is Amor, but i don't know if he plays enough minutes for the role.

Other options are thin on the ground. Walsh would make a good captain, but who knows how long he'll be around. Soliola and Roby lead by example, but aren't vocal enough as you say.

I've noticed Makinson is very vocal and encouraging. If we've conceded a try and we're stood at the back of the sticks, it's him who's trying to fire our team up.

Maybe it's the pie eater in him Seriously though I played in a Wigan based team for the majority of my amateur playing days and softness, lack of effort or heart and giving up simply wasn't accepted by players, coaches and speccies alike. Maybe it is a cultural thing?? I've seen bad Wigan teams but I've never seen a soft one