Yeah thats my take on it,any team that is relying Perry for go forward,Lance for inspiration is going to struggle.
I'm trying to stay positive but its hard after such lack lustre performances,were lucky to have any points at all,we have to thank Ben Cross and the looney Clarke for two of them.
Of course the standard of SL has dropped due to the standard of Johnny Foreigner coming over,i mean we've had superstars playing for us over the SL era,replacing the likes of Long,Scully,KC,Joynt,Lyon,Gidley,Graham and so on and so on,we've been spoiled.
The board have done us proud with the stadium(apart from the cladding)but recent signings have failed to live up to expectations ,meaning we've had to give contracts to players who are possibly past their sell by date ie; Wello.Meli and it seems TP this season maybe 1 year too many.
Sorry to sound so negative but we need a complete revamp which i think will be very hard to do given salary cap restrictions and NRL pay increases.
Anyway onwards and hopefully upwards

I think last year could come back to haunt us to be honest.

We almost reached the grand final last year, in fact we were 40 minutes away from it. The worst thing that could have happened in my view. We needed a complete overhaul for this season, and unfortunately last year cost us that.

I support the club 100%, and will follow them where ever they go, but this current squad is not good enough in my view. We have major problems up front, and have done for several years to be honest. We have a set of forwards who take the ball standing still, never hit the line hard, never hurting the opposition, and bar LMS and Laffranchi ( a second rower) they seem afraid to role their sleeves up and get through some work.

On the back of that, we don't have a half back who can organise or control things, and we are really suffering from that this year. The annoying thing for me is that we had the exact same problems last year, but the club decided to buy a 32 year old second rower, rather than a quality prop or scrum half. Until we address these issues, we will continue to struggle IMO.

Absolutely right in all respects. It may all go pear-shaped yet and maybe Perry'll never turn up, and Gaskell'll never click and Lomax'll never find any form etc. etc. etc. but in a league where only 6 or 7 games in the last third of a long season ultimately count for anything it is completely ludicrous to start wailing about our form 3 games in when we're bedding in with a new coach and system and relying on way too many kids in the backs. In pure personnel terms we're as good as anybody pretty much and considerably better than all but a very few. As things stand now we're in with as good of a chance of silverware as anyone else is pretty much. And to even suggest we might only finish mid-table in such an awful league... It's just not worthy of comment frankly. Except for that one anyway...

And that's where your argument falls down. How many of the Saints backs would get into the Wire, Wigan or Leeds teams?

I'll take you up this.

Back three, we're sorely lacking and are plainly inferior to all the teams you mentioned, albeit the players there have their strengths.

Half backs, the conte clouds one. If we could get Gaskell and Lomax back to their 2011 partnership standard, then I would take them over Wigan's, and there would be a fair argument vs the wire lads. Given the record of success that sin filed and McGuire have, I think we can put them out front.
I know your a fan of both of our lads, so you may disagreed, but I may not believe you



Centres, we have two young and promising lads. Jones did very well last year and Turner looks like he could really add to the attack even if the rumour is his defence is shakey. Wigan have a modest set of centres them selves, so I wouldn't be queuing up to swap for them. Leeds and Warrington however, have better centres.

I think our backs have the potential, hinging mainly on getting the halves gelling again, to be good, maybe even very good. They may not look great shakes right now, but the form book can be turned upside down. In 2011 we looked hopeless at the beginning of the season, but then knocked Wigan, who'd started so well, out of the play offs with two defeats in as many weeks.
Lomax got YPOTY that season and would have been in the England squad if not for injury. I also remember watching the internationals and being of the strong opinion that Lomax would have done a better job than Chase at #7.

What your question has pointed out to me, which I'm not sure if I appreciated, is what an excellent back line the Leeds Rhinos have.

Gaskell and Lomax are not as good as Ratchford & O'Brien let alone Briers & Myler. I can see this being an area where Saints will have to fork out just to compete with the top 4 in SL.

Gaskell and Lomax in 2011 were better than Ratchford, O'Brien and Myler all thrown in together. Briers has a decade of experience on Gaskell and Lomax and so it's just dumb to compare them.

This is easily the worst team we've had since 1996. Whilst some of the old teams had poor players in them, they were always held up by us having a few absolutely outstanding players. There was always a Lyon, Albert, Cunningham, Sculthorpe, Martyn, Fairleigh, Long or Graham in there. We don't have one player of that calibre now, Roby isn't up with them.

What this side lacks most is character. It has no team spirit at all and absolutely no leaders. In teams of old, when it was tight you would always back us to get the job done. Not this team, when it gets tough you feel sick as you know it's going to capitulate.

Is this squad worse than the 2012 squad????

Manu for Flannery
Turner for Shenton
Warmsley for Dixon

In the end the squad has improved on all 3 players brought in. But you can't tear up contracts that players have signed. I said last year that the 2014 squad will be Browns squad, this year it is a bit of brown and a bit of Royce and Rush.

We have missed oppertunities with the back 3 and that was well within our power to change, 2 or 3 times. But we decided to stick for some reason.

I see what you did there. WERE better than, not are now better than. I never compared them, another poster said that. I stick to saying Ratchford & O'Brien are still better than them.

Thats your opinion and fair do's i hope your right,i know its early days but the signs look dreadful,you say were relying on too many kids in the backs,but who else is there?The squad that thin there is some people talking about Wilkin at HB ffs he's had 1 decent game in there to my knowledge,
This myth that people go on about our BIG PACK,as i've said earlier our only true Prop is Perry and he could'nt bust a paper bag,the rest are blown up 2nd rowers.
Gaskell and Lomax were good in 2011 but they had JG busting a gut in front of them,we flattered to decieve last year,we needed to recruit well this tem in my eyes, Manu was'nt needed,ok Dixon aint in his league,but he was young,keen and is tackling for fun at Salford and most certainly on a fraction of Manu will be on.
Turner is without doubt a cheaper version of Shenton,only Shenton could defend and if someone would pass to him once in a while he would have offered more in attack,I know the Hull fans were'nt dissappointed to see the back of him.
I'm trying to stay positive but the realisation after getting trounced by albeit a very good Huddersfied,scraping a win against the 11 men of the Chemicals and clinging on at the end against a Hull side missing a few of their better players,its very difficult,i suppose the test will really come against the Wire,Pies and Leeds i just hope it dont get too embarrassing as it could set the youngsters back years