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FORUMS > St. Helens > McManus out! |
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40218_1286737075.jpg Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40218.jpg |
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| Quote: Mugwump "I've always wondered why so many players have recently chosen to back out of deals at Saints [iat the last minute[/i. Sure, it's happened before. But I don't recall it ever happening so often. Of course, McManus may not be responsible. But given that we certainly needed at least some of those players I wonder whether we could have done more.'"
Er, it may be that the other clubs offered more money AND have recent silverware on the table. Both those factors have enabled Saints in the past to attract big name players to our team. We don't have either to offer at present and so it is unlikely in a foot race against Leeds, Wigan and Wire (the big spenders) that we are going to win.
Remember, two of our players came to Saints because Royce Simmons was our coach. They stated that clearly in their acceptance speeches. I rather think they wouldn't do that if they believed him to be a crap coach. That so many people on here presently do is not because he is but because people are seeking a reason for our present predicament and it is easy to blame the coach. However, the players have to take responsibility for what we have been watching this season. They give away penalties; they don't find touch with kicks; they don't catch kick offs; they miss tackles; they get sin binned; they panic; not one of them is prepared to lead on the field. Royce doesn't coach any of that into their game.
Our senior players need to man up. Only Wello did so against Bradford and he made a real difference. Had our other senior players done so we might have won regardless of the errors of our inexperienced players. In fact, those errors might never have occurred as within the more positive atmosphere of the senior players doing their jobs properly and with enthusiasm, they may have been more confident and so not fallen victim to trying too hard and getting it wrong.
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44308_1279480467.gif Mugwump mocking mental illness for a second time -
"You are mentally ill and I can't indulge your madness any more"
Utter disgusting abusive remark from a keyboard warrior:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44308.gif |
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| I think McManus has done a terrific job at saints with building the stadium and cutting the bank debt but his last two choices of coach have been terrible. I thought potter was bad until we got this current idiot.
On the recruitment side, we went to long not bringing players in (think we went two years without a single signing) when we was losing the likes of newlove, talau, gidley, long, Cunningham, scully etc.
I think we was unlucky last year with the three signings of shenton, LMS and perry as they seemed very good signings at the time but perry got injured, shenton has been average and LMS has been crap.
Its this years recruitment that will be tough to recover from. We've took to overseas spots up with players that have been asked to play out of postion and it's not worked. I know Royce wanted these three players and is good mates with two of them.
This years recruitment is crazy and entirly down to Royce Simmons and I'm shocked Macmanus allowed him to sign laffranchci and lance to play out of postion.
We are desperate to halfback and props but no quota spots available so god knows how we will get out this mess!
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40218_1286737075.jpg Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40218.jpg |
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| Quote: Mugwump "This might be relevant if it weren't for two facts - 1) Warrington had no silverware to speak of (what's more, they had no [inearly success[/i to speak of) when they began their policy of recruiting better players. and 2) they can't spend over the cap, which McManus has repeatedly stated we are spending up to.'"
You referred to recently though, and recently Wire have won two Challenge Cups and a League Leaders Shield whereas we have won zip.
Also, our Chief Exec before he moved on stated quite clearly in the press that we had not spent up to the salary cap this season.
And in addition, there is leeway now for clubs with international players who were brought in from their academy system to spend more than the regulation salary cap so there is some flexibility for Wigan, Wire and Leeds. It applies to us too but only for James Roby this season.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "You referred to recently though, and recently Wire have won two Challenge Cups and a League Leaders Shield whereas we have won zip.'"
But Warrington didn't win trophies with a dud side AND THEN sign better players. They had already begun and effect followed cause. And they have CONTINUED to recruit well ever since.
Quote: SaintsFan "Also, our Chief Exec before he moved on stated quite clearly in the press that we had not spent up to the salary cap this season.'"
Well, that's meaningless without knowing how far below the salary cap we were. In any case, we couldn't use money to recruit overseas stars because we had hit out quota. And McManus has repeatedly - season after season - claimed we are up to or around the cap. If that was true - and I have no evidence to doubt him - we were getting poor value for money. Clearly some players were being lollied way above their pay grade.
Quote: SaintsFan "And in addition, there is leeway now for clubs with international players who were brought in from their academy system to spend more than the regulation salary cap so there is some flexibility for Wigan, Wire and Leeds. It applies to us too but only for James Roby this season.'"
I don't see that as being an important issue at this moment. It may be in the future. But it's not giving Wigan and Warrington a colossal advantage over us.
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16208_1345534518.jpg [url=www.cater-bake.co.uk]Cater-Bake UK - Pizza and Bakery Equipment Specialists[/url]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16208.jpg |
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| Its not a nice situation to disect, as Saints are in a rut (nothing more, mind).
People can point fingers at the players, but, whilst they may not be a team of world beaters, they are capable of a lot more than thy're currently showing.
Foster's a good example. I was never his biggest fan, but I was very positive about what he could bring to us. He wasn't the fastest or biggest, but he complimented his place kicking by being quite error free. Remember when Stevo gave him MoM after he caught that high ball in the last minute of the derby? For an extended period he looked like a very safe pair of hands, now he looks like he couldn't catch the clap in a toxteth brothel.
Johnny Lomax - young player of the year 2011, looks utterly lost.
Michael Shenton - deserved England centre at cas, hardly gets the ball.
LMS - promising talent gone AWOL.
Josh Perry - Former Aussie prop, struggles with form and fitness.
Laffranchi - Former international with a reknowned proffesional attitude
Tony P - Named in Penrith ALL TIME 17, has been massive for us in the past, only turns in 10 mins a game.
Francis Meli - Like him or loathe him, he's a massive attacking asset, hardly getting a sniff at the moment.
I could go on, but for all these players to be performing below par then there's something fundamentally wrong with the workings of the squad, which is the coach's responsibility, whether its tactics, man management or something else.
There didn't look like a lack of desire or will from the players when they were defending the line late in the game on Saturday, but they're spending half the game wandering around not knowing where they should be or what's coming next.
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| Mr Big is accountable completely for the appointment of Simmons (which was a gamble many of us highlighted).
Blaming him for recruitment is useless unless you're going to consider fully the availability of players matched with our own financial circumstances and apportion some of the blame with the coaches during those times you're assessing. You can't say "He should have recruited this or this" if those players weren't available, had no interest in coming to Saints or would not have been worth the investment. That's a complex argument right there and requires far more than soundbite analysis.
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