We'll be knocking on the door for years with out youth development system, that added with good overseas signings mean Saints will be fighting for major honours. Look at the youth leagues already for this short amateur season.

U15 Premier Division leaders - Blackbrook (9 Saints scholarship players)

U14 Premier Division Leaders - Blackbrook, with Clock Face 2nd.

U13 Premier Division leaders - Thatto Heath Crusaders

Our junior sides are leading the way and that alone excites me. COYS!

We have some outstanding players coming through, which should ensure we continue to challenge for honours.

Just look how good Makinson is as a teenager, I havent seen a British threequarter with the all round footballing ability at that age since Newlove and Connolly broke on the scene.

Gaskell, Lomax and Wheeler can only get better.

There are also other kids that have just dipped their toes in the water. Players like Scott Hale Nathan Ashe & Carl Forster.

Then there are those who may make their debuts next year such as Josh Jones or Joe Greenwood

No team in the league has a Jamie Lyon player. Cas have the Man of Steel but is Rangi Chase really a Jamie Lyon type player?

There is no obvious dominant power in SL these days. Leeds were SL champions and Warrington were league winners but the same issue applies to both - the best players are ageing and the teams are going into a transition time even if they avoid Bradford style decline, they will be in the situation Saints have been in in the last few years. Wigan are Challenge Cup winners and have been strong over the past couple of seasons but I think Wigan's power is built on slightly shaky foundations, they have lost a very good coach and replaced him with an unknown coaching set up of Wane, Harris and Thomas, like Warrington and Leeds some of their best players (Richards and Carmont) are getting on a bit. Yes they will point to having a few good youngsters but so do Saints and Leeds and to a lesser extent Warrington as well. Wigan in the past couple of years have been a good side well coached rather than a world class team IMO, and are heavily dependent on one top class player (O'Loughlin) and one game breaker (Sam Tomkins).

Huddersfield a year or so ago looked like knocking on the door under Nathan Brown but the second half of this season they have fallen behind the four teams mentioned above. Catalans to me seem like London Broncos of old - a team that will be up and down, a difficult opponent when in form but not serious trophy winners. Cas, Hull FC and Hull KR are just going to be playing for the lower playoff spots. Hull FC's new chairman seems to be making ambitious statements but it might take a while before they become trophy contenders, the signing of Tony Martin hardly suggests they are going to make an all out assault on the title next year.

So I see 2012 much as I saw 2011. The SL and CC winners will come from the four of Leeds, Wigan, Warrington or Saints but it is hard to predict with certainty who it will be. IMO Saints have as much chance of winning one of the finals next season as any team, but unfortunately for Saints fans there is also a fair possibility they might make it to one or even both finals and lose again!

However the Jamie Lyon point above was interesting in that if any one of those four teams did make that type of signing they would jump to the front of the pecking order.

With the levelling of the teams now, the importance of a coach is becoming paramount. McGuire won last year with his dubious tactics turning a bunch of journeymen into trophy winners. Smith clearly has done a good job at Warrington. The second tier teams like cats Huddersfield or hull could all be coached into winning trophies. The salary cap is really biting and opening the field more than ever

We are ahead of the game. We have already blooded young players in key positions in a Grand Final. Granted, it was a heartbreak for them but they will have learned such a lot from that experience to take forward with them. I hope they all learn to copy Makinson's attitude, which I thought epitomised what Simmons wanted from the team as a whole, particularly in his determination to score that amazing around-Brent-Webb try.

Not being picky but, I think there's 12 or 13 in scholarship from Brook. There's some from Orrell, a couple from Clock and I think there's some from out of the area. I recon saints will dominate the north west matches at this age group.

Wigan have produced great kids each and every year of the sixteen we've been running SL.

Number of titles: 2.

Well exactly. Having a great academy and producing good quality youngsters is a big part of producing a title winning side, but like I say it's only part of the process. The culture, coach and experienced heads at the club all have an equally huge part to play. Up to Madge's arrival we were always struggling in at least one of those area's if not more.

The funny thing is Wigan have been far more successful at producing players in positions which are absolutely crucial to winning the title (mostly the pack). Aside from Graham (and possibly Clough, who is half-back row half prop) our academy has failed miserably insofar as big men are concerned. I'm not saying Wigan are producing world beaters - but they have consistently churned out solid, grafting props which are the platform for any side with title-winning aspirations. How many quality back row forwards have Saints produced in the past twenty years. How many have Wigan produced?

If SL was decided by academy strength alone Wigan would have probably won three times as many titles. The fact that they have won only two suggests having a good academy is not and never will be essential.

Couldn't disagree more, an absolutely ridiculous statement IMO. Bringing through your own quality youngsters is vital to a teams chances. Just look at the sides that have won and dominated the SL competition since it's inception. Bradford for starters brought through some terrific youngsters at the time of their success. From Fielden and Pryce to Peacock and Deacon.

The current Leeds team are where they are because of the superb group of youngsters they brought through together earlier this decade.

St Helens wouldn't be where they are today if the likes of Wellens and Cunigham hadn't come through your system, and you certainly wouldn't be continuing to challenge for honors this year if your academy hadn't brought through the likes of Gaskel, Lomax and Foster.

It's the fact that the lower sides in SL struggle to produce good quality youngsters in any great numbers that stops them progressing up the table.