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| Quote talulah="talulah"Surely it's only cheating if it's against the rules, which it isn't? It is the tackler's responsibility to remove his arm from that position. If the tackler can't do that then he shouldn't have put his arm there in the first place.'"
Shouldnt of put his hands there in the first place!!!! He was making a tackle, other than making sure his arm doesnt end up round the little cheats throat you cant expect him not to allow his armto get trapped when performing a tackle!!! 
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| Quote St-Bernards Head="St-Bernards Head"Shouldnt of put his hands there in the first place!!!! He was making a tackle, other than making sure his arm doesnt end up round the little cheats throat you cant expect him not to allow his armto get trapped when performing a tackle!!!
'"
how is playing within the rules of the game cheating? please explain that to me
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| I've seen plenty of players in the past (and still continue to see it now) holding the defender down in order to win a penalty - and none have been subject to the witch hunt that is now starting to develop now.
Whether sam deliberatly doesn't let a defender take his arm away is not on the same scale as a player deliberately holding onto a players shirt and not letting him get up - at the end of the day -sam still has a responsibility to keep hold of the ball and I still haven't seen any definitive proof of Sam deliberately trapping a poor unsuspecting defenders arm which was previously uninvolved in the tackle.
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| Quote Big Steve="Big Steve"I've seen plenty of players in the past (and still continue to see it now) holding the defender down in order to win a penalty - and none have been subject to the witch hunt that is now starting to develop now.'"
I think the witch hunt is developing because Sam Tomkins is an extremely good player and fans of all the other clubs would like to see him curtailed because they don't have a Sam Tomkins in their side.
Of course I don't like it when he or anyone else does that kind of thing when they are playing against us, but I did rather like seeing Sinfield get a strop on after he'd been had by Mr T. It made me smile.
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| Why is everyone implying Tomkins is the only player who does this. Are you all so influenced by what a football supporter on sky decides to highlight. It is commonplace including a number of your players using it this season and a 'tactic' i have seen on many of the televised games involving all teams
It is something along with many other 'cheats' that should be taken out of our game. To ask a player not to cheat is virtually impossible. No one would ever be offside, or hold down for a start.
As for bringing the game into disrepute try starting with Mclennans post match coments about the 'cheat' Danny Maguire (get well soon)
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| There's nothing new in this. Hanley got away with it for years.
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| Quote ExiledWool="ExiledWool"The problem with the holding down is that it always goes against the defender. I don't think I've ever seen a penalty given against the attacking player for holding down and thereby not allowing the defender to leave the ruck. Is there a rule for that?'"
I'm sure i've seen penalties given for it in the past.
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| Quote talulah="talulah"Surely it's only cheating if it's against the rules, which it isn't? It is the tackler's responsibility to remove his arm from that position. If the tackler can't do that then he shouldn't have put his arm there in the first place.
Your complaint about "conning the ref" is completely untrue. The referee knows exactly what is going on, [size=150but since it's not against the rules what can he do?[/size
Under the current rules Sam Tomkins has every right to do what he is doing, and of course it is rather successful so he's not likely to change. And of course the referees cannot do anything about it but penalise the tackler. Blaming Sam Tomkins by calling him a cheat is ridiculous.
I do understand that the hatred of Sam Tomkins by other teams' fans such as yourselves is largely down to his arrogance (required in a good half-back), and his high ability (that's why we Wiganers hate Keiron Cunningham so much!). That explains the majority of posts in this thread (and the majority of those on Leeds' board)!
I wouldn't necessarily be against changing those rules for next season, but it would then make it the referee's job to decide whether the tackler is deliberately leaving his arm there and pretending not to be able to extract it, and that may cause a lot more problems than the current situation.'"
Thats easy. If he knows whats going on, he can when he sees it allow players additional time to untangle themself from Tomkin's arm.
He is cheating; he knows exactly what he is doing and if he does it against the convicts and gets away with it, I'll probably think well done. I don't for a minute think he will get away with in Oz / NZ. Their refs are not quite as forgiving as ours (unless of course you are called Mason and you want to punch another player). 
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| Quote Saint Simon="Saint Simon":STUPID:
how is playing within the rules of the game cheating? please explain that to me'"
Beause though it may not be written in the rules doing something like that to gain an unfair advantage over an opponent is cheating. Think about it before criticising my beliefs.
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| Sam conned the ref twice. If we can all see it, the ref should be smart enough to spot it.
He can either just not give a penalty, meaning that Wigan get a slow play, or he can warn and the penalise Sam for holding the tackler.
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| We're getting on his back because he does it quite frequently, one or twice, it wouldn't be as noticed, but he's been doing it every time I've seen them on sky, and still he gets away with it, that's why people are "witch hunting" him.
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