I fully agree, I'm a Saints fan living and working down in the south east and when I've been to Quins this is what I see.Quins(and the teams that came before) have done a lot for grass roots RL down south and there are a fair few amature teams in London and in the south east,however,these people don't seem to go and watch Quins play. These are the attendances from the Quins site regarding their last home games against Salford-2,612,against Bradford- 3,112 and against Saints- 4,258 -not good enough after 30 odd years of rugby league in London.

And as for rugby league in Wales I do think "the powers that be" are just being bloody minded-why the did'nt leave Celtic in the first division and see if they could grow there own fanbase and bring on there own players? they had to force the issue and now they have blown the very slim chance they had of a settled club in Wales !

yes he would have said

"these things don't happen at wigan" then promptly taken all the money out of celtic's bank account and transfered it into wigan's to ensure that no one knew about fielden's ridiculous transfer fee and sallary cap breaching wages!

i could go on but the venom in my throat is begining to stick!


god i hate that man, the man who tried everything to ensure his wallet was full at the expense of rugby league (with the exception of one club)

the man who thought widnes and wire should merge!

that calder was a viable option for a yorkshire hybrid team name

aarrrggghhhh! i will stop now before i get carried away!

If News International had never come into Rugby League we would never have been in the position we are today, the real problem is the major funding from Sky has been totally wasted mostly on vastly increased wage bills, okay nothing like footballers, but if Sky were ever to withdraw or reduce funding (This season they only paid £250,000 for the Charity Shield) our game will go back to being semi-professional and even part time.

There is a problem in London, more amateurs and sometimes young people are playing the game than in many parts of the North, but for some reason these who participate are not being turned into becoming loyal fans and supporters. Is it just the size of London, I hear some people in St Helens area of Eccleston tell me they that many of them will not go to the new ground regular, as they have always walked to Knowsley Road, if people have that mind thinking is it a reflection of our game?

Well I'd like to see super league rugby in Widnes as they deserve it, plain and simple and meet the RFL criteria. They'd have the 7th or 8th best supported team in the comp above/equal the likes of Salford, Wakefield, Harlequins, Huddersfield and Castleford.

Fact is that expansion is great in principle but NOT at the expnse and possibly survival of established well supported clubs in the heartlands.
Look at the track record.

Gateshead - Failed
Paris - Failed
Catalans - success (Rugby league hotbed as people have said)

Is there anything to suggest at all that a team in a non heartland area and with a low density of population in Celtic's case can sustain a SL standard team? No I don't think there is.

There are still many RL Clubs in the heartlands that will never attract big attendances to Super League standards, i doubt Leigh will ever except for one or two Derby matches. But as I said earlier it is pity help us if and when Sky do withdraw if it say became a parochial small time game again. I don't like Murdock and News International but he saved our game, I bet he will never back away from Union!

It just annoys me how still every week in the letters pages of the weekly RL press this debate still goes on about teams who did not make the cut for the first Super League Franchise round, it is over and done, the past now! but I have so much respect and admiration for the Widnes Chairman, what an example to so many others, not one word, her just got down to the job in hand to ensure they make it next time around and I have no doubt they will!

Cheers mate for your kind words.

Whislt I do agree, I try really hard not to come across as bitter and twisted. I think SOC's attitude should be applauded though, like the Quins fan above stated he has knuckled down since hearing of the 'rejection' last July. Although i must be honest, I always had us down as a rank outsider anyway,despite the fact I thought our bid was the most honest and professionally put together.

Was reading through a programme the other day from 2003, we played London at home on Good friday, was a crowd of over 7000. OK that to some may not seem like a lot, but for a town of just about 60000 with a massive influx of 'scouse overspill' I feel it to be quite impressive.

Anyway, I feel providing we win at least one more NRC and possibly a GF, and keep a steady average gate preferably above 4000 we should be a safe bet. But I wouldn't trust the rfl as far as I can throw them

Speaks volumn's when the governing body of the sport is held in such low esteem

we need a cumbrian contingent, drawing from the big 3 professional clubs up there.

Cumbrian is an RL hotbed and could support a franchise

I'd agree but imo it shouldnt be at the expense of a team in Wales ... people need to give the welsh team some time and this little mishap should be looked at along with all the other factors when the licences come up again.

I beg your pardon

, are you now coming round to the fact Im always right?