Holroyd can't be relied up. Neither can Gannon. All for RCG and Matterson.

Those two would make a huge difference

Under BA, and with his work on the rest of the squad, we'd be transformed.

What this team needs more than anything is a serious half back that can organise the attack - Croft is OK but he is not an organiser. Neither Frawley nor Sinfield are of sufficient quality to propel the team into the top 4.

All I here on here is a clamour for more props - how many do you need? Given the backs seem to do all the yard making what are they actually bringing to the party?

In answer to your question, a minimum of six of a good standard. We currently have four (I'm very generously including Sangare in that) and are also getting rid of Donaldson and Hudson from this years squad. For context Wigan are in double figures. Our backs do so much yardage work in the absence of forwards who can. We'll get a chance to revisit half back at the end of 25 when Frawley is OOC.

Of the genuine Props we have, I'd say only Oledski is of the right quality. Holroyd is injured too frequently missing lots of games, Lisone is good for 15 minute spells but isn't fit, Sangare is less fit than Lisone and I'd question his application and attitude, then we are into players who are not genuine props.

I'd happily replace Sangare and Lisone, and Holroyd needs to prove he can get (and stay) on the field.

We need at least 2 props before any of the above leave, and some should be leaving if we are serious about winning things.

Half backs need the platform to perform. We are woefully short in the forwards, that needs addressing first and foremost.

You ask how many props do we need, well at one point and for quite a long time on Saturday we didn't have any on the pitch, I'd say we need more than that.

A new half wont be on the agenda for for 2025.The halfs will be better if the pack sets a platform.

Absolutely right Chris, without more grunt in the front row, that can dominate the opposition and win collisions, we could have Wally Lewis and Peter Sterling at halfback and still lose most games. Conversely, get the front row right and Frawley in particular will look better than he has at any point this season. He might not be the answer to our halfback conundrum, but we're not giving him much of a chance right now either.

Couldn’t agree more. 6 is the minimum. Preferably 6 and a couple of kids.

The last time we won the GF, we had Singo, Garbutt, Mullaly, Cuthbo, plus Ferres who played more as a middle.

Looking at the squad, we had Galloway, jjb who probably played more as a middle, ormandroyd, baldwinson and Mik in the squad for the year.

The most recent challenge cup win we had Mik, Ava, Prior, cuthbertson and Donaldson. The wider squad included Crosby, Albert, Mustapha, Holroyd and Walters. Granted some of them won’t have played a great deal, but that in itself makes a point.

Ultimately look at the last few grand finalists and winners, Wigan, saints, Catalan. Big pack with strength in depth.

I’de be looking to do the same. Given we had no props on the bench v Wire and Goudemand was left out , it does not say much for his impact.

Hall in for Fusi
Martin, Donaldson, Roberts, Corey Johnson, hopefully Hudson plus Olpherts salary should all be available to spend.

Whether we can move others on , who knows.

Recruiting quality over numbers is key . 2 quality forwards hopefully , possibly 3 if we can make cap space.

A tough preseason and fingers crossed with Gannon and Holroyd. Agree with a few others, we should be a much better outfit.

Shouldn't there be some money from Hooley and possibly Myler leaving too?

For me any player with less than 50% appearance record should be moved on regard less of age or potential. we are carrying too many sick notes, Fusi, Holroyd, Gannon, Simpson (not played for 2 years) Warren, Hudson. Plus a few others, that least 6 players sat in the stands who have hardly played 2 seasons between them.
There’s sticking by players then there’s just ridiculous. Thats enough salary for 2 really good props or 3 very solid forwards.

If a young player has a bad injury we should move them on? Don't be ridiculous

And the two actual props available didn't make 100m in the game between them! 4 of Leeds back 5 apart from the one made of glass all carrier the ball 100m plus and thats the issue. We could sign the worlds best scrum half and they would struggle to spare a back line that is knackered from doing the forwards work for them.