I still don't think I need to review the footage again although clearly you had to be told that it was Shannon McDonnell and not the Hull centre that broke the line.

Was it also on page four when you stated "Hall a world class winger is currently out of form and on the last 3 games has been worse than Vickery." He hasn't IMO but is your view backed by the Opta stats this week?

So in the 2nd minute of the Hull game is it your contention that Hall should have stayed on his wing despite Leeds being outnumbered?

I was happy that he came inside in that situation and prevented the ball getting to the overlap - unfortunately for Hall and Leeds it was the slow to react than overplay on the drift by Moon and Jones-Buchanan unable to stay in touch on the inside that created the hole in the defence that McDonnell exploited.

And winning a point about a name is important to you when it made no difference to the point I was making.



Against Hull Hall made more metres than Vickery which was the first time in 3 games. Hall made 2 tackles and missed 2 (one of which led to a try.). Vickery made 4 tackles with zero misses. Vickery also made a Marker Tackle and Hall didn't.

Nice to see you are friends again with Opta. Since you are shall we also compare Vickery and Hall in the two previous games. Against the Saints Vickery made 3 rackles to Hall's zero. Hall made more carries but less metres giving Vickery a better average gain. Hall made one error and Vickery none.

Against Wigan Vickery scored a try and Hall nothing. Hall made 3 tackles and also 3 missed tackles. Vickery 2 tackles with one miss and one marker. Vickery once again made more metres from less carries with again a better average gain. He also made one clean break and Hall zero. While Hall made 3 errors to Vickerys 2.

All this supports my point that Hall is out of sorts his timing is off and he is missing tackles. He is a class act and will play himself back into form as will other key players. I am not suggesting for a second that Vickery is anywhere near as good. However in recent games the focus of criticism has been soley on Vickery which has been most unfair.



Yes. Unless he was certain to take man and ball. If Hall had of stayed back the ball carrier would have either passed to the man outside or used him as a foil and our sliding cover defence would most likley have prevented a score. Had Hall stayed in line it is not likley that McDonnell would have cut back inside as he had the overlap.



The Hall missed tackle and the ball carrier coming inside plus some obstruction to the Leeds defenders allowed our defence to be split open and this together with excellent handling completed the try.

he's not good enough for hunslet never mind super league

Not good enough for Hunslet, yet good enough to get a contract at Gold Coast and be a regular member of their reserve grade side - a level well above anything the Championship has to offer?

Some people really are masters of hyperbole.

have you ever actually watched their reserves?

Amazing isn't it? Hunslet don't think he's good enough to play in the Championship yet he played for GCT reserves.

This can only mean one of two things:

1) The standard of Championship RL is above reserve grade NRL.

2) Vickery's playing standard has dropped below Championship standard.

Which one do you think it is Andy?

Or that Barry Eaton is a poor judge of a player...

Can we not just forgot Vickery now. And by "we" I mean the Rhinos coaching staff as well.

Maybe they signed because they thought of other wingers who turned up with their boots and asked for a game and got a refusal.Then went on to become legends elsewhere,but he did have a 3 month trial and someone must have been satisfied to give him a Year.Could it be they thought the young kids needed a bit more time?

Didn't Graham McKay turn up with his boots for a gig?

Maybe McDonut thought he'd get the same from Vickery?

Brighouse Rangers are looking for new players, he might get a game there. But seriously the lad if he was good enough at the start of the season is shot now. He needs a fresh start in lower levels of the league.

Recognising the players and accurately relating the position they are attacking and/or defending in may be useful. Why not establish that first before trying to discuss the action.



So in the Hull game where in your opinion Vickery was the better of the two wingers - what were their metres again - sorry but I didn't quite catch it?

How very balanced of you to point out Vickery also made a marker tackle while ignoring that Hall made almost three times the total metres (177 to 66 - does Opta include the metres made in reverse?) Hall made twice the number of carries (20 to 10), Hall made 1 offload to Vickery's 0, Hall made one attacking kick to Vickery's 0, Hall made 2 runs from dummy half to Vickery's 0, Hall made 2 tackle busts to Vickery's 1 and they both made one error ........ that is if you trust what Opta claim.



Again you use selective stats that suits your agenda - where's the balance? Opta are no friends of mine but come in useful to counter your selective use of them. The Opta stats mean very little to me in regards to assessing player performance - the actual incidents that occur in games is what I try to focus on rather than someone else's subjective opinions which have often been proven to be inaccurate when tested. Your apparent willingness to accept their validity is not shared universally.

Leeds V St Helens

Vickery caught a ball and ran five metres unopposed. 4.69921875:5