There are tackles that rattle the carrier and stop them dead and tackles that eventually drag them down after they've made 15m. To simply focus on the number made is pretty simplistic IMO. Maybe someone can be ar*ed to look whether metres made by the opposition has increased this year which would surely be a better indication of the fitness and effectiveness of those making the tackles.

Vendttas? Thats way ott.

But I didn't simply focus on the number of tackles did I?

I had responded to JJB being picked out for special criticism by Rhino-Mark who said among other things that "he was gassed after 15 minutes" and in the interests of balance I pointed out the following stats:

JJB was our Top Tackler (31)
Only Cuthbo and Dwyer made more metres (of the forwards) than JJB (114m, average 8.77m per carry)
Only Cuthbo made more carries (of the forwards) than JJB
JJB made No Errors
JJB missed 2 tackles which was half the number of missed tackles of Crosby, Dwyer, Thompson or Myler who all missed 4

Now I did not need to have been at the game to see that JJB cannot have been the worst of our forwards with these stats and his actual overall performance was not consistent with the critical remarks made by RM or that he remained "gassed after 15 minutes"

Furthermore Sinfield chose to keep him on for the first 61 minutes (gassed for 46 of them!) until Halifax had shot their bolt and we were winning 24-6. This again rather shows he did not share RM's critical assessment.

Now if you are saying that for most of JJB's 31 tackles he was dragged for 15m each time then RM may have been right. But if so where were the other defenders? But even then how do you explain his carries and metres made if he was so bad?

Also the radio commentary made a point of praising JJB's quick reaction tackle which prevented a breakaway after Cuthbertson's pass had gone astray.

I never even commented that JJB had a good game because I did not see the game. I merely challenged the selection of JJB for being chosen for special criticism over other players.

So on a fans forum is it not allowed to challenge a critical report of a player which may be an unfair assessment where the stats and coaches interchanges do not confirm the criticism because I was not there?

Spectators see the game not just from different angles and viewpoints but from different prejudices because we are human. So some will agree with you and some will take the opposite view. It happens at most matches.

Without being there Dwyer's stats also show him to be the game changer and they also Smith made a good impact, albeit that his 22 minutes were against a part time side who by the were shot.

The stats I quote are not my numbers but they are the official record of the players individual performance and if you study them they give a good indication of work rate per minute played too. eg: JJB (over 61 minutes) and Dwyer (over 40 minutes) had the same work rate per minute. So this proves JJB grafted for his full stint.

Whilst it may not be the case on this occasion, sometimes players tackle counts are higher because they are targeted by opposition coaches and playmakers.

I’m not passing comment on this particular game, just making a general observation on why some players may seem to do more work than others.

Personally, even though I don't have a dog in this fight, I like a blend of stats and watching the match.

Stats will show you things you may not see in a match, while being there you can see foibles that don't show up on any site.

Given the club has said that Hall, Keinhorst and Moon will be saying goodbye at Toronto game I presume the rest are staying which is staggering to me especially the back row.

JJB, Ablett and Delaney have been magnificent servants of the club but I would have thought it would be time to move on from them especially Delaney.

We certainly need to be seeing more of Cam Smith next season who needs a big off season to develop further.

JJB was the runner up in the Rhinos Player of the Season awards

Myler P of the S
JJB 2nd
T. Briscoe 3rd

Nice to see that others also still rate JJB

You could have picked all three out of a hat we have been that bad.

I aint gonna argue those were the best three, but the bar was set so low even the limbo dancing champion of the world would struggle to dance under it.

Good for him nice recognition that in our worst season since Dean Bells 90's squad scraped safety he came 2nd in a pointless poty poll.
What next a years supply of bandages for Delaney due to his outstanding injury record?

Everything is pointless to you if it does not concur with your critical opinion especially your dislike of facts over opinion.

What the poll shows is that those that voted did not agree with your assessment of JJB who they rated as our top forward this season. No surprise you regard it as pointless

Yes the season has been very bad and has not improved with a change of coach which you have been calling for since 2011. I have consistently pointed out that the main problem has been with the players or more specifically that lack of quality replacements for which GH is responsible.

The failure to sign a class 6 when Sinfield left was a big error as I pointed out at the time while in your opinion Sutcliffe should get the 6 shirt. JP was impossible to replace with just one player. Burrow was replaced with Myler but McGuire and Kylie were not replaced and neither was Galloway this season.

So we have had an ongoing erosion of the creative players and the big men which has exposed the journeymen type players who otherwise would have held their own.

I do not agree. There have been several players who have worked hard and tried their best in very difficult circumstances. That they were let down by constantly having to play in an under strength and changing side and sometimes playing longer minutes or undertaking a different role because of injuries to teammates.

Certainly some players have not stepped up to the mark and have been found wanting for a lack of skill and commitment which has undermined the work of the players that gave their best.

So in addition to Myler, JJB and Tom Briscoe I would add that Singleton, Delaney, Watkins, Oledski, Hall, Walker, Golding and Dwyer can hold their heads up too. Injuries and poor form reduced the effectiveness of Parcel, Cuthbertson, Ablett and Ward but they still worked hard.

The side has lost too much class and creativity over the last 3 seasons without replacement which I assume was down to financial reasons because to the debt. I guess that Hetherington believed that McDermott could keep squeezing another trophy out of the deteriorating squad for ever. Indeed he did last year when the lack of class was apparent.

Sinfield has kept saying he is now ready to "press the buttons" and sign some recruits, but it is hard to see where the class signings will come from or indeed the money.

The playing longer minutes point is rubbish Mc.D & now Sinfield have played too many forwards with longer minutes even with bench options.
You defended Mc.D for doing this yet only a couple of weeks ago backed a selection process on merit & form=,Hypocrite.
Working hard is all well & good( should be standard in a pro sport) but that graft has to be effective.
You love stats but ignore actual in game mistakes i.e out of position ineffective at marker , less impact after a certain amount of minutes etc.
You respond to my criticism as though its a personal dislike for players yet you'll happily hammer younger players when they make the same errors.
Whats undermined this Team is ignoring the main Blueprint that built our SL Legacy i.e retention -Letting top earners go a year or 2 early not 3yrs too late.
Recruitment-Not Signing the required quality too many projects because the Coach has his favourites.
Coaching-Mc.D didnt improve 1 player or nurtur a youngster above their obvious potential & his flog em till they drop policy injured or not has bitten us on the arris 2 seadons out of the last 3.
GH McD the Conditioning dept & the players are all to blame for this years failings so any awards imo are irrellevant.
The only positives from this year are the u19's the Ladies the Wheelchair squad & the Disability team.
That 1st team squad needs serious surgery including the old men you champion.