If you take the view (as I do) that Caddick views Caddick Group plc cash as "his" cash then you seem to be implying that the Leeds RUFC Ltd accounts are incorrect given they state that he/his company have written off significant amounts over the past ?

Shall I give the AADB a call to launch an investigation?

Look it's perverse that I'm having to attack this from this perspective as I am fully convinced that Leeds RLFC subsidises Leeds RUFC to the extent that we undercharge on rent and management charges and passover of group relief. But the idea that this tinkering at the margins alone is either enough to dig Leeds RUFC out of their loss making pit or that it is enough to mean that the Rhinos have to scrimp and save on their player budget or that Caddick does not then plug the RU gap through his own resources is preposterous.

How much do you think Leeds RLFC takes in season ticket proceeds in advance of the subsequent season? When does the majority of that cash come in?

The end of December is therefore likely to be one of the higher points in the year's cash cycle.

Playing devils advocate here

The club has to stand behind Brian Mac this season even though things are far from rosy at present, time will tell whether or not he can turn things around.

He has been handed a squad of players to work with, none of which he has personally signed, numerous of which are possibly at the back end of their careers, and has been pointed out in other posts our problems started well before Brian Mac was appointed.

Are this seasons poor performances a culmination of what has gone on previously?

Did these problems actually start during Tony Smiths tenure at the club?

We have been a very successful club since 2004, and have won 4 grand finals along the way, but 2004 season aside i can't remember seeing us being as dominant for the whole season.

We have endured poor spells in each subsequent season although peaking at the right time in 2007 to 2009 to win the GF

theirfor is it the coaches fault or the players that we are in this current mess or a culmination of both aided by poor player recruitment?

I would like to mention a rumour which i was told by a current Professional RL coach, He said that there was far too much player influence within the Rhinos club regarding team/club matters and that these opinions have been subsequently acted upon

2004 was a freak, we won the league by a record margin, with a record points total and a record points difference, with record points scored. No-one did it before, no-one did it since. We cant hold up our inability to replicate 2004 as a failure.

How's about Schoey?

Well, they're certainly responsible for that dire pink away shirt for a start ....I have it on good authority that the design was 'voted on by the players' and rubber stamped based on their opinion.

Wasps 51 - 18 Carnegie.

Only two games left now and they need to win both really. Looks like we won't need to 'loan' them as much money next year.

Just been down their squad also, if they are spending more than 2.5M on that lot then GH needs his bloody head testing!

I hope they go down and never come up. I find it absolutely staggering that they spend up to the cap of £2.5m and find themselves in the proverbial **** year after year.

The crowds will never increase because no-one want's the three point game in Leeds.

I just hope that the Rhinos massive profits aren't propping up this big white elephant.

Mcdermott will be going nowhere at least for this season

I would imagine these transactions relate to the genesis of whole formation of the Tykes - you know like I do that a set of accounts tells us what the issuer wants us to see. Especially for private limited companies - disclosure requirements are pretty minimal.

I am not for one minute suggesting anything improper has taken place only that the need for Caddick to support the Tykes appears to have wained in recent years - which is the point I made in the original post, something you have also agreed is probable.

I would imagine the loan from RL to RU is to covers the loses and to show the Tykes as a going concern? You could say it is all Caddick's brass and how the Tykes is funded is irrelevant - I would suggest outside funding in these economic times isn't as forthcoming and bank lending is much stricter given the nature of Caddick's wider business interests.

To me looking from the outside there have been some indications all is not so rosy: GH ringing season ticket holders who hadn't renewed, the sacking of the RU bods due to potential lack of funds next season, the scaling back of the southstand development and the lack of recruitment in the RL side.

On December cash - I would say Leeds have 9,000 season ticket holders with half being kids so £1m - however how much of the renewals is done before Xmas especially those with kids? I would suggest corporate sponsorship and sky monies represents a far bigger revenue stream and it is unlikely that money will come in before the start of the season. Add to that revenues from games which will be 250k a game minimum and I would suggest December cash balance will be quite low compared to March to September?

2.5m includes all the coaching, support staff and travel etc - how much do you think it costs to take 25 players and coaches to a meaningless game in Italy?

They are however there are still only limited ways one can fudge between two related companies without it being disclosed in the related party note.

I have? Given Leeds RUFC Ltd has sod all in the way of fixed assets or long term liabilities or provisions, the timing difference between losses and cashflows is probably quite small. Therefore the losses being made are likely to be a decent approximation of the amounts the benefactor has been required to stump up.

The company has made the following pre tax losses (ignoring Caddick etc loan write offs and Leeds Met subsidies)Nah, going concern would be boxed off from an audit point of view by a letter of support from Caddick Group plc, as disclosed in the Going Concern policy. The cash was transferred presumably because Leeds RUFC Ltd had spent all theirs and needed it to pay the bills!

If I were auditing this lot I would ask why Leeds CF&A Ltd haven't provided against the £1.7m owed at their year end by an insolvent company. Since that hasn't been the case my guess is that Caddick group has provided guarantees to PKF that Leeds CF&A will not lose out either way and provision has therefore instead been made in Caddick Group plc; not sure how that would stack up but it's the only way I can see provision being avoided in the Rhinos' accounts.

Therefore rather than anything sinister, Leeds CF&A are just the chosen instrument from whence the cash comes this year. i.e. this is a supporting transfer of cash, not a subsidy (but will interest be paid on the loan....?)

That kind of thing has been going on for years - never get a phone call from Barrie Mac?

I doubt Caddick actively [ienjoys[/i ing his cash into the wind so perhaps pruning of this loss making venture is a good idea?

Wait and see what happens on that one, GH is playing a multi-sided game of chess between the planners, local residents and fans.

So you say.

It's hard to say without asking to see the books but I would note that the first year the company had an October year end Accruals and Deferred Income was £1.1m whereas the last time it was a December year end (the previous accounting period) the equivalent figure was £2.7m. This perhaps gives some indication of the level of pre calendar year end renewals.

It will only get worse if and when he does the recruitment.