That's because in reality we're better than the league table suggests and Wigan are worse - they've just done one or two things right per game where we've gone wrong. That could be individual errors, refereeing mistakes or simply the bounce of the ball. In a parallel universe We're both mid-table on 12-14 points.

We've lost 6 games by 4 points or less, without half our team - we're really not that far away.

As for comparing any other team's injury problems to ours, I would struggle to be convinced. It's not just the number of injuries, but the relentless nature of them happening - I think the Saints game was the first time we've been able to name an unchanged 17 and we go and lose three players in the game. Wigan, on the other hand, have had contingency plans for O'Loughlin's regular absences for years and knew going in to the season that it would be a while before they saw Tomkins so it's not the same as planning to use him and losing him. Williams and McIllorum are big misses, but we've lost pretty much everyone with any experience, no wonder we're struggling.

Leeds lost their two most influential players at the end of 2015 but they had given the management of the club 12 and 10 months notice. Long enough to finalise and execute the existing succession plan and not really relevant to 2016.

Leeds' record with McDermott/Peacock/Sinfield will have been similar to Leeds' overall SL percentage which is around 67% or 8 wins from every 12 fixtures.

Leeds' record so far in 2016 must be around 25% or 3 wins from 12 fixtures.

Professionally run clubs don't need or offer excuses.

It was interesting listening to Andrew Johns and Gus Gould before last night's Wests v Rabbitohs game, as both teams were struggling hugely coming into the game (Wests got beaten 60-6 last week and the Rabbits had won only 1 of 6).

Johns' view was that completions, kicking to the corners and strong defence was the key. Gould was even more adamant that defensive attitude tells you all you need to know about the state of a club.

Leeds this year have been dire at both ends - currently lowest points scored for decades and second worst average of all time in terms of points against over all games, with only 1996 worse (but even in that dreadful year we averaged scoring 25 points per game compared to just 16 this year).

None of us are privy to what's been going on. All we can agree on is that we've been terrible and it simply isn't good enough. The only other question is whether the team and coach are able to turn things around this year or not. Personally I think from here it would be a (relative) success just to make the top 8.

Regardless I would hope changes will be afoot for next year.

Wigan have 32 players listed in their 1st team squad while we have 26 this is not equal in my book. Have you visited the facilities that both clubs have used this season in order to form your opinion?

Yes Wigan have had their injuries too but I do not think they have had the same numbers out week in week out for the whole season to date. I think they have been able to turn out a better balanced side each week with their main pivot available each week. This has meant they have won their close games sometimes with a bit of luck eg Hudderfield had 2 men in the bin the other week.

So Wigan are in 3rd spot while we are in 10th yet they have only scored 1 and a half points per game more than us and conceded 4 points per game less. Sport can be cruel at times and IMO there are too many variables and un-level playing fields to be able to make a convincing case that other teams have coped with adversity better than we have.

Could we have done better - yes. Should be have recruited better - yes. Have we had pre-season disruption to preparation - yes. Have we had senior players badly out of form - yes. Are we suffering from the loss of our two long term leaders on the field - yes. Do we have to be patient - yes. Can we get in the top 8 - yes. Can we win the Cup - Yes. Should fans stop panicking - YES.

SL in theory has levelled the playing field but perhaps as George Orwell would have said 'some are more equal than others.' To listen to the effect the loss of the training facilities have had I'm beginning to wonder if all Leeds' achievements were because of it: www.totalrl.com/rhinos-nearing-kirkstall-return/

SL in theory has levelled the playing field but perhaps as George Orwell would have said 'some are more equal than others.' To listen to the effect the loss of the training facilities have had I'm beginning to wonder if all Leeds' achievements were because of it: www.totalrl.com/rhinos-nearing-kirkstall-return/

Yesterday Wigan lacked these from their pack;
Flower McIlorum Crosby Farrell Tomkins O'Loughlin

I was until recently responsible for the team that manages one of the facilities, I was speaking yesterday to the supervisor about Rhino's use of the facilities, so yes.

So unless things are like for like you cannot compare resilience to adversity!!

I don't think anyone is panicking - just commenting on a very poor start to this season and as to how the club could possibly have done things differently/better

How do you easily assess whether one team had more injuries than another without getting all subjective on the matter? How about using squad numbers as an indicator of full strength ie. a score of 153 would represent squad numbers 1-17 all playing in a given fixture.

I currently have these for Leeds' opening six regular rounds:

Leeds 189 - 210 Warrington
Widnes 203 - 206 Leeds
Les catalans 192 - 234 Leeds
Leeds 239 - 251 Huddersfield
Wigan 231 - 231 Leeds
Leeds 213 - 225 St Helens

Of those only Warrington have won while being further away from their optimum starting number than their opponents.

Ferres played in all of them.

An excellent summary.

To balance out the massive amount of negativity, it's worth pointing out that there are a few real positives which will come out of all this, not least the fact that we've blooded some really good youngsters, with more to come (the last time we did this was when names like Calderwood, Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow and Jones Buchannan were all relatively unknown).

Personally I'm confident that we'll finish well within the top 8, but I don't care about not winning everything/anything this year. With the loss of Sinfield and Peacock, it was always going to be a year of rebuilding. Unfortunately it's been made all the tougher by the floods, lack of confidence and injuries to pivotal players.

Which facilities have we used all season then? and how do they compare with Wigan's?

It wasnt intended as a year of rebuilding, if it was we would have kept Robbie Ward and tried to up his game time, among others.

On an unrelated point I think we are all seeing that having only one proper 9 in a 25 man squad is costing us.

And Wigan got tonked 40-10.

As far as I know tonight we have the following out injured : Ward, Cuthbertson, Ablett, Delaney & Briscoe, Moon, Hall, McGuire & Hardaker