It's ironic that the SL search for a quick play the ball has come at the expence of the integrity of the PTB which now unfortunately matches the integrity of RL scrums.

Ironically very little wrestling is now involved in wrestling because it makes it dull. Although the overall quality of the NRL is higher, I find a lot of that quite boring because it is just better wrestling and faster, more effective gang tackling for long periods, particularly early doors.

Maybe the lack of a A team maybe taken into consideration of the lack of quality coming through the systems . Clubs can't keep all the young / fringe players together anymore to give them time or opportunity to develop there games but just farm them out to lower league sides ,then they just seem to disappear from superleague altogether just a few examples at leeds ,foster,minns duckworth ,Mann,ambler ,Tonks and will Baldwinson ever play for leeds

No he shouldnt be our main organisor, he should be playing second fiddle to Mcguire, I think the coach over estimated Burrows ability to come on and play the role of a main half

Your the one complaining not me, I still think we should give Sutcliffe at least a year at 6 before we judge his long term prospects as Williams was pretty poor for the first half of last year, the reality is unlike the NRL we have no reserve system and therefore have to play halves before they are 100% ready

Golding is a fullback? how many games would it take you or the others bashing Lilley and Sutcliffe to turn on him if he was put at 6?

agree about putting Golding into the halves in the current situation is not likely to help him or the team.

2 stats to provide food for thought, one for each side of the debate.
1) Leeds have scored lowest number of points in SL this season. Disjointed etc, etc.
2) Leeds have lost 4 SL games this year having scored same number of tries as their opponents. Close but no Sinfield assisted cigar. Had they won all 4 would have been 6 wins, 2 defeats and perhaps not much defending of McDermott would be needed.

Final point is my opinion rather than fact. In last 2 games Leeds have missed IMHO 5 gilt edged scoring chances, In part due to some excellent defence, in particular the young wakey winger making a great cover tackle on Hardaker. However, a number have been missed by the likes of briscoe and Watkins that would have been taken last year.
. I am now drinking from the hall full glass of Luke warm cat slash, this loss of edge could well be due to the training ground issues ( one for Mr eve).

I suspect losing the tight ones could be a recurring theme this season.

if so, it will focus the sleeve's mind to seek to avoid the same deficiencies next year. The tough bit is you can't get a widdop without blowing the salary structure. McGuire is nearly at the end of his great career so there is a need to sign one class half as a minimum in next 2 years. Getting one is much easier said than done. Hence why characters like Brough earn more than anyone at Leeds now.

Leeds being the most prolific with regards to the lack of integrity of the PTB. I don't ever recall Peacock playing the ball with his foot correctly. Was he ever penalised for it? Ryan Hall the same.

The contrast with the NRL is stark.

I agree Sutcliffe should not be our main organiser. I said last season that he has not shown he has the skills required to be a halfback and that his style is more suited to centre or fullback. That is not bashing a youngster but my genuine opinion. To put him in such a key position of responsibility in this case is not fair on the lad or the team. To not recruit a decent half back was a big error as it was a huge risk to put all your money on McGuire playing a full season. So when Mags got injured who else had we got?

Lilley looks a more natural halfback though lacking a bit of pace and Golding played most of his junior rugby at scrum half I believe and in any case he has all the attributes to make a good half back although I agree he is also a classy looking attacking fullback.

Also to expect Burrow to completely change his style of play and become the new Sinfield was also wrong. He is an off the cuff instinctive player and is at his best in that role.

Many of the ones complaining now are those that didn't forsee our half back weakness and were more than happy to go with Sutcliffe. We need organisers and decision makers at half back.

More McDermott bashing from the usual suspect.

This never happened when Sinfield was selecting the team.

Ah TVOC (a dyed in the wool supporter) you are so right!

What is happening to Leeds now is a tragedy for whatever reason and an answer needs to be found.

Perhaps someone can confirm when Falloon was replaced (Walters?) the following happened: Burrow to hooker, McGuire to scrum-half, Sutcliffe to stand-off, Hardaker to full-back, Watkins to wing, Ablett to centre and Walters to second row.

To contrast in the NRL Peter Wallace (noted half-back) has stepped in to cover the hooking duties - in doing so I heard he made/is making 40+ tackles a game just like a hooker should. No disruption to structures, no hiding on the fringe defence, no complication and no excuses.

From an outsiders POV.

Firstly I can't believe whats going on with Leeds, even losing JP & KS I thought you would still make the top 4. But your results so far the year have astonished me.

Secondly you are in the same position as us Wires were 2/3 seasons ago when we lost Briers, Morley, Hodgson etc. It has taken us 2 full seasons to turn things around. Ive only seen Leeds once this year when we played you so I can't comment on your lay. But this year seems much much deeper than your usual slow start to the season only to go on and win it from Fifth.

I think some of the answers to your current problems are more deeper than what is going on at Leeds. I think the RFL need to up the salary cap I really do, only then will SL clubs able to attract and retain the top players. Only through the Marquee signing rule have we been able to get Chrissy who has totally changed us as a team but he is just one player. There is currently not the quality across teams that our game needs. The old adage of the salary cap levelling up the field now gone. Warrington, Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Saints & Salford now all have the financial backing to compete but we're all held back by the cap.

The cap has to stay otherwise you will get the same as when Wigan won year after year . This season is not great for Leeds but i bet plenty of others are enjoying it

That's just rubbish. A cap is a cap, not a never ending. Increasing it, increases it for all. The proof is in the pudding, the competition is declining because of the restrictions. Had we increased it in real terms then at the least we would have stayed as we were as a comp. another 200k is the equivalent of only two quality players, which would help all.

I said the cap had to stay , not that it could not be increased