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FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > M8 RD 6 | Halifax RLFC -v- Leeds Rhinos
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All I can say is that reading too much into how well anyone plays against what are a bunch of dreadful sides in the Middle 8s is a bit silly. If someone looks rubbish against that quality its really worrying, but we've all seen plenty of players who look good against poor teams only to vanish when faced with decent opposition.

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "If I had been at the game I would have seen that JJB was making plenty of tackles, his share of carries and metres. Something you failed to see or chose not to report.

Over many years I have disagreed with your critical and too often judgemental assessments of players and rugby management matters to the extent that I take your opinions with a large inch of salt. So the fact that you were at the game does not automatically mean your reporting is accurate. That your fellow back slapping pals like Tad and Gotcha agree with you rather encourage me in my opinion.

That you cannot accept the official stats, which all clubs use for KPIs, rather proves my point and it is no coincidence that your dislike of stats is because they rarely back up your opinion, indeed more often than not they challenge your opinion.

You love to dish out your critical comments which is your right, but you can't take it when I challenge your criticisms and you get most upset when I back up the challenge with facts.'"

What you would have seen is exactly what i & the other travelling fans saw.
A Club great coming towards the end of a distinguished career is thst better?
He was done in D by the attack more than twice as were others but they were rotated before him.
Also anyone that was there will agree the influence Dwyer had on that game along with Cam Smith.
Jjb grafted he just isnt up to it for long enough anymore but of course your numbers dont show that so it never happened then.

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I wasn't at the game so, unlike you, I haven't given an opinion, let alone make myself look stupid by argueing with people who were there. you stick to your spreadsheets,like a comfort blanket for pensioners i guess

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Soon we will be dancing the Fandango FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB'S DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESS THEN I DONT KNOW WHAT IS. JAMIE PEACOCK:



personal vendettas should really be kept on PMs .There is a difference between debate and this sort of thing

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There are tackles that rattle the carrier and stop them dead and tackles that eventually drag them down after they've made 15m. To simply focus on the number made is pretty simplistic IMO. Maybe someone can be ar*ed to look whether metres made by the opposition has increased this year which would surely be a better indication of the fitness and effectiveness of those making the tackles.

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Quote: lionarmour87 "personal vendettas should really be kept on PMs .There is a difference between debate and this sort of thing'"

Vendttas? Thats way ott.

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Quote: Clearwing "There are tackles that rattle the carrier and stop them dead and tackles that eventually drag them down after they've made 15m. To simply focus on the number made is pretty simplistic IMO. Maybe someone can be ar*ed to look whether metres made by the opposition has increased this year which would surely be a better indication of the fitness and effectiveness of those making the tackles.'"


But I didn't simply focus on the number of tackles did I?

I had responded to JJB being picked out for special criticism by Rhino-Mark who said among other things that "he was gassed after 15 minutes" and in the interests of balance I pointed out the following stats:

JJB was our Top Tackler (31)
Only Cuthbo and Dwyer made more metres (of the forwards) than JJB (114m, average 8.77m per carry)
Only Cuthbo made more carries (of the forwards) than JJB
JJB made No Errors
JJB missed 2 tackles which was half the number of missed tackles of Crosby, Dwyer, Thompson or Myler who all missed 4

Now I did not need to have been at the game to see that JJB cannot have been the worst of our forwards with these stats and his actual overall performance was not consistent with the critical remarks made by RM or that he remained "gassed after 15 minutes"

Furthermore Sinfield chose to keep him on for the first 61 minutes (gassed for 46 of them!) until Halifax had shot their bolt and we were winning 24-6. This again rather shows he did not share RM's critical assessment.

Now if you are saying that for most of JJB's 31 tackles he was dragged for 15m each time then RM may have been right. But if so where were the other defenders? But even then how do you explain his carries and metres made if he was so bad?

Also the radio commentary made a point of praising JJB's quick reaction tackle which prevented a breakaway after Cuthbertson's pass had gone astray.

I never even commented that JJB had a good game because I did not see the game. I merely challenged the selection of JJB for being chosen for special criticism over other players.

So on a fans forum is it not allowed to challenge a critical report of a player which may be an unfair assessment where the stats and coaches interchanges do not confirm the criticism because I was not there?

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Quote: RHINO-MARK "What you would have seen is exactly what i & the other travelling fans saw.
A Club great coming towards the end of a distinguished career is thst better?
He was done in D by the attack more than twice as were others but they were rotated before him.
Also anyone that was there will agree the influence Dwyer had on that game along with Cam Smith.
Jjb grafted he just isnt up to it for long enough anymore but of course your numbers dont show that so it never happened then.'"


Spectators see the game not just from different angles and viewpoints but from different prejudices because we are human. So some will agree with you and some will take the opposite view. It happens at most matches.

Without being there Dwyer's stats also show him to be the game changer and they also Smith made a good impact, albeit that his 22 minutes were against a part time side who by the were shot.

The stats I quote are not my numbers but they are the official record of the players individual performance and if you study them they give a good indication of work rate per minute played too. eg: JJB (over 61 minutes) and Dwyer (over 40 minutes) had the same work rate per minute. So this proves JJB grafted for his full stint.

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Whilst it may not be the case on this occasion, sometimes players tackle counts are higher because they are targeted by opposition coaches and playmakers.

I’m not passing comment on this particular game, just making a general observation on why some players may seem to do more work than others.

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Personally, even though I don't have a dog in this fight, I like a blend of stats and watching the match.

Stats will show you things you may not see in a match, while being there you can see foibles that don't show up on any site.

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:



Given the club has said that Hall, Keinhorst and Moon will be saying goodbye at Toronto game I presume the rest are staying which is staggering to me especially the back row.

JJB, Ablett and Delaney have been magnificent servants of the club but I would have thought it would be time to move on from them especially Delaney.

We certainly need to be seeing more of Cam Smith next season who needs a big off season to develop further.

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JJB was the runner up in the Rhinos Player of the Season awards

Myler P of the S
JJB 2nd
T. Briscoe 3rd

Nice to see that others also still rate JJB

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "JJB was the runner up in the Rhinos Player of the Season awards

Myler P of the S
JJB 2nd
T. Briscoe 3rd

Nice to see that others also still rate JJB'"


You could have picked all three out of a hat we have been that bad.

I aint gonna argue those were the best three, but the bar was set so low even the limbo dancing champion of the world would struggle to dance under it.

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "JJB was the runner up in the Rhinos Player of the Season awards

Myler P of the S
JJB 2nd
T. Briscoe 3rd

Nice to see that others also still rate JJB'"

Good for him nice recognition that in our worst season since Dean Bells 90's squad scraped safety he came 2nd in a pointless poty poll.
What next a years supply of bandages for Delaney due to his outstanding injury record?

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