In SL, true enough. In terms of the M8s, our next game v HKR is a crucial one. Win, and there's light at the end of the tunnel in survival terms. Lose and we're up to our waists in the quicksand.

I think that in the midst of the final positions points difference will come in at. Some point, that last quarter on Sunday’s may well cost you a place. Time will tell.

If we beat Hull KR we should be fine, we should be beating widnes and Halifax easily.

Fwiw I think we will lose to both Hull kr and Salford but win the rest which should see is safe.

Anyone else utterly unimpressed with Toronto so far? My favourite champ team is easily Toulouse

You have to go back pre SL to find a worse Leeds team than this one. And I don't enjoy saying that. There are similarities with the Leeds side I first watched, a few ageing and well past their best players at the edge of retirement, a lot of the very, very ordinary, a few genuinely crap wastes of space and a couple of quality players (although I just realized I have described most teams in SL). F**k it, what do I know. I only watch Union now anyway.

I have watched since 87' and its definitely up there with the team that took the field during SL 1 as the worst i have seen.

ATEOTD, staying up is all that matters, yes I'd like to see a professional performance from Leeds but y'know... we haven't had one all season so they aint going to start now. Performance would be great, but I'll take the result over performance at this point.

A lot of work to do.

we just need to survive. It's not about performance at this stage and in truth for an hour the performance was satisfactory. Win and get out of there is the order of the day at the moment.

The next game v KRnt is a vital one. Win and were as good as safe I think.

Lose and squeaky bum time for a few week. i think 4 wins will see us safe and we've 2 on the board already.

what a shambles to be in this position. Fingers crossed we never are again.

I agree. beat rovers and we are about there.

The next game is the one that will set the tone for the rest of the season.

The club know changes were/are needed - I expect significant activity once the status is confirmed.

Being in this mess after 2016 though is unforgiveable, and shows just how much GH took his eye off the ball. I bet the review they did at the end of that year wasn't worth the paper it was written on because the whole club bought into the excuse-athon. 2017 was like an indian summer, where we lucked out in easily the weakest year in SL in the last 20 years. We rode our luck well and took our chances, but it seemingly reinforced the view that the club was in far better shape than it actually was.

I seriously shake my head looking at some of the stuff we've churned out this year. Disninterested, unfit and clueless sums up way too many games, with the culture of the club allowed to completely evaporate as everyone waits for someone else to do something about it. But there is no Sinfield, McGuire or Peacock to grab a game by the scruff of the neck.

On the KR game whilst I'd like us to win, I don't think its must win. The games we have to win are Tornoto, Halifax and Widnes. Win them and we can lose to KR and Salford and stay up. From what I've seen so far we should beat both Toronto and Fax, and hopefully Widnes are shot as well. They look so bad that I wouldn't be surprised to see two Championship teams in the MPG.

You have to think Widnes will win enough to stay up surely?

I was certain they'd stay up. But the league would be better without them.

Why do you think that?

At the moment Salford are the form team, can’t see us or HKR being relegated. Would like to see Toulouse come up. Not certain about Toronto, especially viewing the multi discipline pitch markings in Toronto.

Your issue with Toronto is pitch markings?

Widnes are in trouble. The table looks at this stage to be more like 2016 than 2017, and in 2016 London missed out on the MPG on points difference despite having won 3 games. Its not impossible for Widnes to catch up, but even now the MPG looks about the best they can hope for.