Whilst we're duffers on the field, we're one of very few SL teams capable of running at a (small) profit. The maths of that could change considerably though if we continue to go cheap and end up losing fans and sponsors as a result.

Sal - disagree about reserve grade. the gap between Academy and first grade is enormous, and the sport needs a proper pathway for kids to get into the first team. The idea of dual reg could have worked but only if the lower league teams had accepted their lot as feeder teams for SL. They didn't (fair enough) so we're now in a world where we have to choose a couple of kids at 18/19 to contract out whilst the rest are unceremoniously dumped and left to their own devices whilst DR is doing nothing for the credibility of the Championship.

The thing is the sport has changed a lot, and very very few players are physically ready for first grade at 18 or 19 now. Without bringing back reserve teams the only thing I can think of that could help is moving the age groups up a year at least, to U2s or even U21 (with lower groups bumped up as well to U17s).

Where do we get the other 20 odd players per club to run and pay for a reserve grade?
Just scrap the u19s, and make it the reserve grade. That way, it gives players longer to develop, but it would be far cheaper than running another competition.

Agreed - with the current system in place how many players have Leeds failed to develop into first team players that they could have if they had a reserve grade?

I don't buy into Brisbane's the kids aren't physically ready at 18 - this is SL not the NRL - Walker doesn't struggle with the physicality of the game neither does Oldeski.

The issue is more about what happens to players in the Leeds system and why so few actually reach the required standard - this is game-wide issue not just at Leeds. When was the last time Leeds produced a half back of any quality or a second row forward or a centre or a hooker - key positions in the team.

It's not a game wide issue as in all teams. Wane and Powell have made others look ridiculous. Just like Smith and McClennan did at Leeds before McDermott got in. Super League is packed with poor coaches and those coaches do not have it in them to develop young players, as a result the game suffers with a shortage of stars. The clubs who get the best youngsters around, have serious issues in their coaching if they can not have a constant conveyor of true talent developing.

Thats a very one eyed view. Kids are getting thrown on the proverbial scrap heap at 19 due to nowhere else to go. Without being rude clubs like yours signing all dry and sundry on too doesn't help when you have surplus players to just release. That isn't a slur on the process just a reality. Kids develop at all ages, one massive example of this was one of your greatest players jamie Peacock. James Roby another, never stood out on academy rugby, never a junior international, develops into one of the best hookers SL has ever seen as he had time. Peacock was a Late bloomer and there is a big chance he wouldn't have made it in this day and age.

It shows a lack of respect to championship clubs in my eyes that you can just 'fill the championship', look at where Fev have been last week or so without some of your players they have relied on all season. Like I say not here to argue just an observation of the game not just Leeds. We need a reserve grade in my opinion. Also sorry if it comes across argumentative/trolling certainly isn't meant that way, just healthy debate

Would players get better playing reserve grade or in Championship on dual reg? Surely that's the only thing that matters.

Not sure how reserve grade would help Leeds in truth really.

Consistent coaching, access to facilities, monitoring of performance.

Have Leeds seen an increase in number and quality of players coming through since they adopted dual reg?

I don't think you do have to find 20 odd more players to fill out the reserve grade team. A mix of players who are from the 19's pushing for a first team slot (smith, oledzki, newman, trout, oldroyd,sutcliffe) with a mix of players who might be coming back from injuries or cant get a spot in the first team at the minute/ the players loaned out (lilley, ormanroyd, walters, keinhorst). Although yes some recruitment could be needed for reserve grade we have the majority of a squad.

Wane is fortunate in that Wigan have by far the finest pipeline of talent in SL. He has had to use the youngsters but it really helps if you have the cream of the crop to start with. Leeds used to be in that position until Barrie McDermott and Brian McDermott were involved. Powell is in a similar position in the Cas. is a hotbed for junior rugby - Lock Lane, Panthers, Kippax etc.

Im not Wanes biggest fan but he's chosen to back his youngsters more often than having to. He runs a strict policy if you're underperforming you dont get picked & the next u19 in line gets a shirt.

abolsutely not. Infact we have taken the route people are calling for to be honest, in actually backing far too long players who will never make it, rather than writing them off early. In the case of what we have done, the chances of finding a "late bloomer" were very slim. Had we took the route of actually sending younger with much more potential on the dual reg, then this might have been a different outcome.

Roby made his debut for Saints as a 19 year old not sure that qualifies as a late developer - he played for GB at 21/22.

Featherstone couldn't even field 17 players on Sunday so let's not get on your high horse. I would have thought Leeds letting players go at 19 would be a good for Championship clubs that don't have the ability to fund an academy. Leeds take on 8-10 youngsters a year only 2 max. will make it - that a lot of quality young players - if going through the Leeds academy system hasn't put them off

I think you might have stated that incorrectly Sal, rather than what you meant. What you have put is wrong, but like I said I don't think intentionally. Leeds did have cream of the crop, and still manage to, but never developed it sufficiently at all. The change of Barrie McDermott first was a step forward in the younger pod, but then Brian from the senior pod just stumped anything anyway.

I am more than confident that had we had someone like Wane or Smith in charge over the McDermott era we would have seen a constant continuance of the conveyor belt of talent. Their is an argument to say would we have still won the trophy's? that is unknown and down to opinion, but the development would certainly have been better.

We must agree to differ - Leeds don't get the quality of youngsters they used or they don't develop - where are the Sinfield's, McGuire's, Chev's, Watkins, Hall of this last 5 years of youth development its Sutcliffe, Keinhorst, Handley, Luke Briscoe etc. The quality of the intake is not at the original level.

Barrie McDermott took the academy backwards this was then compounded by Brian McDermott - either development is poor or intake is poor and you can't polish a turd.