We have been adrift of the Aussies now for 40 years. At times the gap has narrowed but it feels fairly wide at the moment.

In 1978 we won the 2nd test at Odsal to level the series and mean a decider at Headingley. I stood on the western terrace and watched us be outpowered and outplayed. Even worse, there were nearly 30,000 in and nobody could move. The result was wet, warm legs as people refilled their pint pots and tried to pour on the floor.

By the time 1982 came the gap was a chasm. The times we have got closer IMO have been when they have had good but not great halves.

Playing SOO together, the core of their team knows each other inside out. In the last two years we have played Tomkins, Hardaker and Lomax at full back and a cast of characters in the halves, at hooker and loose forward.

Doug Laughton said a few years ago we may never beat them again, I am fearing he may be right.

I would keep Bennett. He is a truly great supporter of the international game in actions not words. If he works a miracle and gets us a World Cup he will have secured beyond doubt the tag of best ever coach and will deserve a knighthood.

Going to Anfield on Sunday in hope NZ can give em a good game

1978 was the tour where the signs were there of a gap emerging between the two. The 1980 tour of Australia confirmed a huge gap. The 1982 Kangaroo Tour confirmed a chasm. We bridged the gap briefly between 1988 and 1994 but it's been very one-sided ever since.

The Odsal test in 1978 was my first taste of an international. There were 26K there though still plenty of room How did 30K squeeze into Headingley?

If Doug Laughton doesn't believe we will ever beat them again, we really are stuffed

ah yes, the old ''we should pick players on form''. The burgii have been in poor form. Dropping them would not improve our chances. We don't have the depth to do this, we can only select the best players we have.

I'm so sick of reading the same crap after an england/GB series defeat, been reading it on here for the last 10 years, mainly on the VT. We should do away/bring back relegation, we should have yorkshire v lancashire, lee gaskell should have been selected etc.

Ha, so very predictable isn't it?

I'm same.

There are lots of parts of Sam's game that can be picked apart in the games against NZ and Australia but that scuffle can be shelved. Nothing to see.

Quote: William Eve "The Odsal test in 1978 was my first taste of an international. There were 26K there though still plenty of room Something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WOZa4stlmo I was in the south stand close to where John Atkinson got stretchered off after being splattered by one of the aussies. And although my memory is of the ground being pretty full, I actually thought it was fuller for the cup quarter final against Northern a few months previous - when the published attendance was c18k

Quote: William Eve "The Odsal test in 1978 was my first taste of an international. There were 26K there though still plenty of room Something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WOZa4stlmo I was in the south stand close to where John Atkinson got stretchered off after being splattered by one of the aussies. And although my memory is of the ground being pretty full, I actually thought it was fuller for the cup quarter final against Northern a few months previous - when the published attendance was c18k

I agree it's depressing but having watched the game only since 1991 when I moved to Leeds from a RL nonexistent area(Suffolk) I don't know any different. The worst bit is we could not beat them with the great players we had then ie Hanley Schofield Farrell Connoly and such and we no longer produce them that is what concerns me most.

So you think that we should pick players that are not on form - perhaps just players such as Watkins, who IMO gets picked on his previous seasons form, or this season against Championship sides?

The English centres were diabolical, especially in defence. None of them had performed very well over the season but got picked regardless. It was the backs, more than the forwards where we struggled. Bennett didn't have a clue what was his best half back pairing and must have seen that Watkins and Sarginson were at best flimsy against the Kiwis, but stuck with Watkins and I'm sure would have done so with Sarginson had he been fit. My pairing for the World Cup would be Atkins and Currie, who at least would be better able to cope physically than Percival and Watkins.

I hope that Bennett has woken up and smelled the coffee, because if he keeps selecting players for the World Cup on their name only we will certainly get stuffed - AGAIN

Currie I can agree with as a player who would have certainly been in the squad if fit.
Atkins should be nowhere near any England side.
Cudjoe possibly but the major miss was Shenton.

I actually thought Atkins had one of his better seasons to be fair.
Cudjoe/Watkins and Percival possibly as the form centres.
Something else nobody has mentioned on here is that isn`t it a shame Brough plays for Scotland instead of England

Totally agree chestnut. I would not wager 10 bob and a conker on it changing anytime soon

If you just want players physically strong enough, pick two second rows in the centres. Unfortunately that's not what its about. Its about not regularly playing against players of that standard. The same is true for any alternatives - Cudjoe, Currie or Atkins. IIRC the last time Atkins played against Aus he ended up needing counselling.

If Ryan "Flat Track Bully" Atkins is the answer? I don't want to know the question.

Everyone knows we are not good enough in the centres. We have one guy in Watkins who COULD and perhaps SHOULD be world class bracket but is frustrating and hasn't lived up to that billing, certainly of late. I do think that is why he gets extra criticism especially from rival fans. I don't think he had an awful series, he just wasn't a game changer and that is what gets people's backs up imo.

Like you say, Atkins is certainly no answer at international level, same as Shenton both are 30 plus now, and i'm struggling to see much hope with centres coming through anywhere on the horizon. Probably have to hope that percival comes on leaps and bounds over the next season or two, but Watkins is still the best option we have there by a clear distance.