I reckon there are a few second rowers I would have over anyone else, I can't think of better second rower edge runner as ben currie atm, I also think Bateman and ward are top class and better than proctor and possibly matt gillett, they were also all better than whitehead last year imo and he is arguably the form second rower in the NRL

If Semi Radradra goes to French Union then I also believe that Migilvery or Manfriedi will be the best wingers, as I can't think of anyone in the NRL atm with that mixture of power and pace and finishing that they have and hopefully that Hall will get back

Also O'Lochlin is the best ball playing 13 but the only real competition there is Greg Bird as most NRL teams basically play an extra prop at loose forward

James Graham is a great example of a player who was best in the world at prop (or arguably second best to peacock) but was only named in world teams of the year in his first year down under, because too many people slate SL

You're spouting nonsense about Gillett. He's vastly superior to the SL players mentioned, especially in the work he does off the ball. That's the one area where our second rows are way behind their NRL counterparts. James Graham, Sam Burgess et al would openly admit that they are far better players now than when they joined the NRL.

TBH I think you - along with many - are waaay too bullish about how good SL players are. We've regularly been told how great our pack supposedly is, only to see it smashed off the park by Australia when it matters. And the reality is that our halfbacks are so far behind Australia's that its almost funny.

The problem is we only tend to see the gulf in class when we play Australia, but I'd argue the WCC results in the last two years (with the Roosters smashing teams with halfbacks now both deemed inadequate for the NRL) are really indicative of how far SL has slipped.

Completely agree - but there is a difference between British players playing in the NRL and Aussies with distant English relatives.

The more of our top players competing in the NRL the better the England side will be. That is the way forward in my opinion - we need to get our young players some experience in Australia so they can see the standards they need to aspire to.

I agree about the half backs/centres - that is a coaching issue and the standard of English coaches is terrible and until you get the correct quality of coaches at academy/junior level that is never going to change.

As I said before filling the side with aged players on the decline that Australia don't consider good enough will improve the side to a point we will lose by less, if you think that is a good strategy so be it.

You spout some rubbish.

We haven't got a winger as good as Valentine Holmes never mind Oates or Gagai

O'loughlin - you are have a laugh - can't play two games in row and Corey Parker is a different world as a ball playing forward.

Currie is a good player but suggest he is as good as Gillett is stretching it.

To suggest Peacock was the best prop in the world is also madness - Matt Scott has been the stand out prop in world rugby for years.

What do you think the scores would be if the WCC series was played in Australia in June? It was an annihilation when the SL clubs had everything in their favour - one team would concede a 100 if the NRL side was prepared to play hard for the whole 80.

The current standards in SL are dire and falling - the standards in the NRL are rising and the game is increasing at a rapid rate. This will continue until we replace the likes of McDermott/Wane/Cunningham etc with coaches with the requisite skills and knowledge to move the game here forward.

I think a lot of props/backrowers in Sl are Nrl standard. Hallmarks aren't really worth talking about. Backs are a mixed bag but I reckon most of the backs from Leeds and Wigan would get a game over there. As always it is depth that's the issue.

I would however Sal argue that the Nrl isn't getting better, certain teams have been good to watch. But there are comfortably some very bad and inconsistent teams there this year as well. The Knights and the Dragons imo have been terrible, and teams like the gold Coast and the warriors have been inconsistent.

I can't remember as many one sided Nrl games as I've seen this year.

The gulf obviously isn't much given that whitehead is playing better than he was in SL and can't have improved too much in the past few months
I think its more likely you are overrating Gillet as I take it you live in Brisbane?

Same goes for aussies who were average over here but suddenly turn into great players when they go back like Sam Moa (who is technically from NZ but the point stands)

NRL are far better in the halves and to a lesser extent at fullback, but in all the other positions I don't buy this myth that very player in the NRL is so superior

I think the increasing losses in WCC matches and decreased standard of SL is more of a reflection of the decrease in coaching standard (as well as the loss of a few star players) than the decrease in the standard of players, something that shouldn't matter when the England team is coached by Bennet

Blair, Lowe, Jackson, Glenn, Gillett, Cooper, Cordner, Proctor, Hoffman, Graham, Cartwright, Papalii, Scott, James, McQueen, Lawrence



Oates, Holmes, Morris x 2, Gagai, Mead, Nofoluma, Addo-Carr, Nightingale, Korobiete, Taufua, Rona, Johnston, Mansour, Watene-Zelezniak, Feldt, Winterstein, Beale, Uate, Don, Fai Fai Loa.




Taumalolo, Parker, Bird, Graham, Guerra, Merrin, Eastwood, Finucane, Taupau EVEN Gallen




Scott, Tamou, Woods, Myles, Klemmer, Bromwich, Lillyman




NEED we go on?

Valentine Homes! He might make a good fullback someday but is nowhere near big enough to get sets on the front foot, same with gagai, whilst Oates will soon get moved to the back row as his finishing is good but not great, although atm I would put him on the same level as the English wingers I mentioned, I see very little difference between him and Mgilverey for example

Corey Parker cannot pass or kick with the vision of SO'L, certainly can't run games in the way he can, and is actually more of a power forward who can offload

Matt Scott has only been the 'standout' because he is australian and the media over there big him up despite the fact that he has been out performed by Graham and Bromich foe or years, imo Peacock was better than Graham most seasons when they played together (although both arguably played their best stuff when Graham moved down under) and was therefore probably better than Matt Scott

The statement about an NRL team scoring 100 points in the WCC is pretty ridiculous, they not have 'every advantage' thats just another myth that they used to give when they lost, we have the advantage of being at home, but the preseasons start at the same time and any advantage we get from playing 1 or 2 SL games is nullified by the fact we have only one week to prepare

I do agree about the quality of coaching though and of the widening gap between SL and NRL that the RFL are ignoring just not about the quality of the players themselves

This is getting ridiculous, if you honestly think that Merrin or Watene-Zelezniak or Lillyman is better than every player in SL then you need to get you rheas checked
And if you genuinely thnk that then why would you even bother watching SL at all

This myth only stands up if you ignore all the successes of players going down under and if you ignore the flops we have seen come up here

Morris and Hodkinson shouldnt be playing for England, they have also represented Australia. On current form my England team would be;

1. Sam Tomkins
2. Jermaine McGillvary
3. Leroy Cudjoe
4. Ben Currie
5. Dom Manfredi
6. Gareth Widdop
7. Luke Gale
8. T Burgess
9. Josh Hodgson
10. James Graham
11. John Bateman
12. Elliot Whitehead
13. S Burgess

14. Daryl Clark
15. G Burgess
16. Scott Taylor/Mike Cooper
17. Joe Westerman

If your going on current form how is Cudjoe in there, Tomkins tbf has just come and hasn't been to bad but definitely not form fullback. And don't think Westerman should be getting into 17 with all the backrowers we do have.

Based on dream team stats, Cudjoe is the best centre in the competition this year. Not so sure myself, but on stats thats the bottom line.

I think the point about coaching is well made & it applies across the board in British sport.
English football under an English coach/manager is now a laughing stock.
We now have foreigners coaching virtually all the top premiership soccer clubs.
England RU & cricket only really prospered when they appointed Aussie coaches.
Off the top of my head it's only in Cycling that our coaches lead the world, even there they had Aussie support.
Why do we not produce world class coaches/managers?

Oh wow! On form, Jermaine Mc, Cudjoe, Widdop, T Burgess, Bateman (!!), G Burgess, Westerman shouldnt be in that 17

In terms of coaches I'd say there are two problems.

Firstly in order to develop, our L-Plate coaches need to go to Australia to learn. They need to be learning from the best, not coaches who wouldn't get a first team job in Australia in a million years. They would also see how junior development works right through to NRL coaching. British coaches seem incredibly reluctant to learn their trade - how many high profile players do we see jump onto the coaching merry go round with at best a bit of Academy or assistant work in SL?

I know McNamara isn't popular, but I have enormous respect for the fact that he's come over to Australia to better himself as a coach. Right now if I were running a club and it was a choice between BM and McNamara I'd go the latter.

Secondly, clubs still seem to want to go for their own ex-players for some reason. Banging on about 'culture' or 'knowing the club' as though that makes up for a complete lack of technical skills. The same logic seems to make clubs want to go for name ex players rather than good coaches - bizarre given that they seem to be willing to overlook lack of a stellar career when choosing Aussie coaches (Robinson and Maguire had no great playing careers).

Thirdly, its a bit of a stereotype, but I do think we have far too many props coaching in SL. Somebody who's whole career has been about making yards and tackling people running straight at them is less likely to have as good an appreciation as a halfback or hooker. I'm not saying there won't be exceptions but when I look around the NRL I see ex halfbacks and hookers (Hasler, Barrett, Stuart, McFadden, Green, Taylor, Bellamy sort of, Flanagan, Brown) for the main.

SL is miles behind the NRL, and is handicapped by having less money and a far smaller player pool (plus the self-imposed lack of reserve competition). But the game as a whole doesn't maximise its on-field performances by going cheap on coaching.