I agree with you Sal both on this and also that he is overrated by many. His game is based on physicality and work rate but he is currently lacking the skills I like to see in key positions. IMO his current best position is on the wing but until the likes of Golding gain more experience he will remain at FB. I can see him as a future back row man which may suit him best of all.

Most of the other FBs in SL have better try scoring, try assist and clean break averages which is one of the reasons Leeds were below par on attack last season. Sure Hardaker returns the ball strongly but not cleverly enough IMO. It is what you do with the ball that counts.

On his first half of the season performance I would agree, but on his second half of the season performance I do not agree.

his games not based on physicality any more than any other full back
his fantastic try savings tackles are all about technique, not physicality.
his ability to field kicks, and take high bombs, is down to his positioning and technique.
how is his game based on physicality?


are Escare and Shaul better full backs because they scored more tries?
and what about 'tackle busts' averges and 'metres per game' averages?
i dont need 'try' and 'try assists' stats to see that Hardaker was better than most, if not all, full backs in the league last season.

i agree 100% with this post and i wouldn't swop any current sl full back for zak and under any circumstances

The fact it is Juan Cornetto agreeing with Sal tells you all you need to know about how wrong he was

When you consider he came from the second tier and got into the team earlier than expected in the wing. Then stepped in at centre and whilst not being a world beater did enough to fill in for Keith. Then he covers full back for Webb and does even better. I think he's done remarkably well given he's only had 2 full seasons at fb and there's been a considerable improvement in his play. Whilst a big fan of Lomax and Russell I wouldn't swap either for him. Last year his form dropped off but it was around the time of Silverwoodgate so was no surprise. When our scramble defence was on fire at the start of last season he was a big part of it.

Seconded that's the best compliment i personally could pay to ZH i wouldn't swop him for any other FB in this League.
As for his form dropping off is anyone surprised the whole team went to pieces and he had the RFL farcical "lip reading" case hanging over his head.
He had to adapt to play Centre ,he handled it and lets not forget we won a GF with him playing there and looking more than comfortable then he was shifted to FB and has excelled there imo.
Like i've posted before Daryl Powell has stated more than once that he sees ZH as a future 6 now lets be honest DP wasn't a bad player and an even better Coach so i'd happily at the very least see him tried there should he stay and Golding continues his progress to take the no1 shirt.

His defense is usually based on physicality and his attacking runs are certainly not based on silky skills. You have chosen to overlook that he has also made positioning errors that let in tries. Having said that my critical comments were made with regard to his attacking abilities as the discussion was about Hardaker as a possible Stand Off.




Escare, Hanbury, Bowen, Lomax, Eden, Grix, Rankin, Godinet ,Wellans, Eden, Dorn, Shaul & even Mathers all have better try scoring averages per carry than Hardaker

Escare, Bowen, Lomax, Hanbury, Rankin, Eden, Grix, Godinet,& Wellans all have better try assist averages than Hardaker.

For clean breaks all the following are ahead of Hardaker and several are two or three times better: Escare, Bowen, Lomax, Hanbury, Mathers, Rankin, Eden, Dorn, Grix, Shaul, Owens, Godinet, Kear & Wellans

You asked about tackle bust averages well Escare, Russell, Bowen, Dorn, have better averages than Hardaker

You also asked about the metres gained averages which show Escare, Russell, Bowen, Hanbury, Dorn, Shaul, to be above Hardaker.

Now of course this detail does not prove any of them to be better or worse than Hardaker as a fullback but it does rather support the view that Hardaker is not only below average in three key attacking areas but towards the bottom of the pack which for someone being touted as the best fullback is a real handicap given that FB is one of the key attacking positions. It would also be something of a drawback on the cv of anyone being considered for the position of standoff too.

IMO Hardaker at his best doesn't have the class of Webb at his best and this lack of attacking class has been a reason the Leeds back line failed to fulfill its promise apart from the early matches last season. Hardaker was outstanding in the first half of the season and very average in the second half. As I have said his kick returns are very good and he can blast people out of the way, but his passing, kicking and creativity are lacking. Maybe he can improve these skills?

All very well doing by 'Per Carry' but we all know that the Leeds back 3 do a lot more work in their own half starting sets than others do so it doesn't paint the clearest picture.

Also this good 1st half of season/bad 2nd half thing.

Well the Warrington game with the homophobic issue was Round 14 which is pretty much the first half of the season.......when he eventually got to play in the 2nd half of the season in 4 league games (vs Cas, Sal, Brad, Lon) he scored 2 tries, assisted 4 and ran for over 200m in two of the games. Add to that the CC semi and Final, the great halting of a 40/20 and return upfield vs Wire that led to Hall scoring and then at Wembley he made a break that again led to Hall scoring. Not too shabby.

Post that we went 60 mins with 12 men a week after Wembley so a tough ask of the team who were just tying to cling on in that game and then he had the 2nd trail by social media thing hovering over his head. A more realistic view is that he had a bad/disappointing last 4 games of the season....not half a season at all.

I do actually agree he needs to improve his play with ball in hand when we get close to the opposition line.......but then again so do the whole team? How would Hardaker's numbers for tries and assists look if we had an improved attacking structure across the whole field?

his defense is based on technique, im still not sure why you think its based on physicality?
do you think he physically overpowers people in order to stop tries, rather than getting himself in fantastic positions and using skill to get underneath the ball/force the ball out?


whose are, then? or are attacking runs something that you think are based only on physicallity?
his step and change of pace, are they not skills?


no i didnt, its just something that wasnt raised in any of your posts
i could probably think of a couple of times where zak may have made defensive mistakes
i could probably think of a dozen, if not more, where his last ditch tackles saved tries, not to mention the number of times he took challenged high balls incredibly well



when you look at the stat 'per game', rather than by 'per carry' it paints a diferent picture though, doesnt it?
Wellens made 15 try assists in 26 games, (with some games played at half back) Hardaker made 13 try assists in 21 games.
Hardaker made 102 tackle busts in 21 game, Dorn made 56 in 18 but has a better busts/carry average? LOL
didnt Godinet play hooker of the bench for most of the season bench too?




the stats im looking at dont support that at all, i guess because im not looking at 'stat per carry'.
he made 13 try assists and scored 8 tries, which seems about right - he scored or assisted a try on average in every game he played for us
the attacking play i see from him, couple with the (easily best in the league) defensive full back abilities make him for me the best in league at his position.
could he improve in attack? certainly. he cant throw that cut out pass like Webb could, but who in the league can?


his passing is certainly not the best for a full back, i agree. but i dont think he's really had chance to properly display his kicking or creativity yet given his role/position, but again it is probably still raw compared to most half backs.

i believe all things considered he's the best full back in the league, if you disagree then that's fine.
i know i wouldnt swap him for any other full back in the league right now, and i believe he's still going to get even better.
lets hope we can get him signed up for a few more years yet so we can find out