Agreed tvoc 100%, and I am not quite sure why The Teacher thinks Warrington are not just a good an example as Leeds, the initial investment and cash injection have helped them achieve success quickly yes, but they look like a long term sustainable business now to me with a huge increase in average attendance and a very nice modern ground.

I think that Wakefield could well be the next Warrington with a new and affluent owner at the helm and, because of a better demographic, they could ultimately pull in a slightly bigger average crowd than Warrington as well!

Bottom line is the more financially viable clubs we can get the better. If those are ones who are genuine contenders for success then all the better. If they can also get 10,000+ average crowds.

If Wakefield have the potential to be one of this type of club then good for them.

I can't believe you actually put all that. I know you are quite tied into Wakefield at present with the new ground sitation, but don't get carried away with soft spots.

How long have Wakefield been in the game? They have never averaged crowds as big as Warrington. That is why I don't think Warrington are a good example for what tvoc put. Warrington have always been a club with decent enough crowds, and more importantly high merchandise sales.

What a new owner would have to do with Wakefield in order to match what Warrington are is absolutely massive.

I can't tell if you really mean it or are just taking the michael with that last sentence, that Wakefield could potentially draw higher crowds than Warrington. It will never happen.

Let me repeat what I put on the other page. In order to be a succes you have to be a well run club with high income streams (from the operating of the club, not a benefactor), i.e. gate receipts, merchandise sales. Unlike Football in our game it makes diddly poop how rich your owner is. Unless of course you are a rich benefactor who is also running a club with high gate receipts and high merchandise sales.

Where's the "bottom line" in that post? There's a lot of variables and hypothesis.

That was just management speak at the start of your waffling, non point making post wasn't it? I loath management speak. What you just did was effectively say "Bottom line is.........I've no idea and won't tell you what the bottom line is".

Bottom line is you need more blue sky thinking. Perhaps we can take an idea shower so you can take an holistic cradle to grave approach to your posts to ensure you get all your ducks in a row before future postings.

PMSL, Laywer wanting to lecture anyone on the use of language.

The "bottom line" is that if we had a finacially viable club game then maybe we wouldn't see quite so many clubs going to the wall and potentially such turmoil in the sport that we both love.

Is it the bottom line though? Is it really?

Why isn't the club game financially viable? Which clubs have gone to the wall? Does going the wall entail appearing on a Dale Winton TV show?

You have mastered the art of talking a lot whilst saying nothing.

Just because you are bored and still at work stop taking it out on me. If you can't see that without financially viable clubs our game will die as a professional TV Screened entity, then no number of words from me will enlighten you, management or otherwise.

Go home....

Could Wakefield's benefactor be Mr Sykes who developed Meadowhall?

I don't have the figures but I'd be surprised if that stands up to scrutiny pre SL. Before Warrington's move to the Halliwell Jones (adding roughly 4K) I don't beleive there was more than a couple of thousand in it . In 1999 there was less than a thousand for example. All clubs have seen a noticeable uplift in crowds on moving to a new stadium (with the possible exception of Wigan - lots of issues peculiar to Wigan) and I'd be disappointed if Wakefield couldn't share in that renewed sense of optimism.

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I was responding to this comparison rather than a comparison to a 'cashed up' Wakefield should such a thing ever materialise. Unlike some I'm reluctant to state that future possibilities will never happen.

How should we determine which club has been run better? Moran has been Warrington's owner for six full seasons over which time they've gradually established themselves as an attractive proposition for players and spectators. The missing piece for Moran IMO was securing a quality coach and once that was achieved they've become serious contenders capable of beating anyone on their day (other than St Helens obviously.)

Their record would compare reasonably well against that of Leeds 97-02 representing the first six seasons under Caddick's control.

Why do some folk believe that because Wakefield were a founder club of the Northern Union they have some God given right to exist in the top flight today?

The pure and simple fact is that SL Rugby just isn’t that attractive enough in Wakefield to sustain a viable business in today’s economic climate. The bottom line of their P&L shows that.

I’m really not bothered if Wakefield lose their franchise, they tried SL – it didn’t work, so time to move aside and let another club give it a bash. Maybe one day they will rebuild their status enough to be worthy of a franchise but as it stands today they are simply an embarrassment to have in Super League.

losing the franchise may be a good thing. it will give them time to sort there finances out, sort a new ground out and get back on a stable footing.

If the answer to the original question is no will there only be six games in cardiff and will cas get a 'bye'?

It will be sad to see Wakefield leave SL but IMO it would be a good thing for them if they leave SL.

A fresh start to sort out all there off field troubles, once there back on there feet again maybe just maybe they could once again become a SL team.

Time for the Fax to step up to SL

When you're only talking about figures of 4-6k then "a couple of thousand" represents a pretty sizeable difference in percentage terms though.

Are you seriously telling me that Wakefield could effectively double their home support with the right reinvestment and relocation?