Nothing about how we play shows we can finish above HKR which we'd need to do to finish 5th. I think we will be 7th or 8th.

At the end under Agar we were giving away a lot of 6 agains and getting penalised a lot as well. Smith’s passive defence tactic improved both of these and although it seemed counterintuitive it worked to get us to the GF.

Since What appeared to be a laid back pre-season in 2023, teams have worked out the ploy and if they make few errors, we get hemmed in our half and the odds are against us . This happened a lot last year and is happening again but the tactic remains and I think this more than anything is leading to fan discontent.

When TV pundits are saying our tactics cannot work at top level it’s mystifying that Smith does not change tack, maybe he thinks our pack can’t do it.

Could scramble into 6th place but that is not what Leeds should be about. Its also about how you play and are competitive in games 5th or 6th with progression in the way we play and a few close defeats and a suggestion we can challenge next year is acceptable but the same finish by playing the same brand of rugby as the last 18 months and beating the poor teams but comprehensively losing in the big games means nothing will change in 2025 other than our young players with potential will be a year older but the first team environment remain the same and that risks their development. RS is not the man for me but hes only part of the problem.

When were we third then 4th last year?

Maybe the second round?

We have a stack of injuries who are due to start coming back, that will make a difference.

Who knows we might crash and burn, but our ‘form’ in 11 games suggests we win more than we lose, last year 16 wins from 27 got Hull KR 4th spot. That win ratio is achievable by us this year, of course it depends what other teams do, but other teams will get injuries and lose players aswell.

But it’s pointless playing mystic meg at this point a lot can happen, especially when the league is so tight.

I can’t see us finishing above Wigan, Saints , cats , Wire or HKR, so 6th if we go better than Hudds, Salford and Leigh who have ground to make up but are now playing better.

After saints we play the bottom 4 in a row, IF we win all 4 we will be up there, but then we have a really tough run to the end of the season and my concern is with a few injuries to key players, the wheels could really come off from July onwards.

Last year it was not beating the teams below us that cost us a playoff spot.

We beat Wigan, Saints, Catalan, lost to Cas, Wakefield, Hull FC, Huddersfield…

This is often forgotten. Given the overall record against all teams under Smith the record against the real top ones is pretty good.

Anyone know what's going on with Kerian Hudson? He doesn't seem to be mentioned much?

Think his win ratio in SL against Wigan is 3 from 4 isn't it?
Catalans and Warrington pretty similar

It's Saints where we seems to struggle, although last year all our games against Saints were very competitive and close.

Can't seem to buy a win against Hull KR though! think that's 1 from 4 or 5?

He was working his fitness up but then got a knock on his sternum I think followed by a hamstring injury, which has been keeping him out.

He's quite a big lad he might be another one of these whose bodies just isn't up to RL, we'll see. I actually quite like him from what I've seen, he has good whack in D, decent pace, decent hands. Earliest I think you'll see him in first grade might be towards the end of the year IMO.

His head to head with the other top coaches/teams (I'll throw Wire into that too) was pretty impressive and one of the main reasons why I thought he was worth another go this year. The worrying thing is - that now seems to be going down the tubes too. Some of those early wins were achieved with notable absentees in the spine, which made them even more impressive, but we can't really say that this season, can we? To me it does look like we are being left behind. I'd love to see him turn it round. It would be a great story, but my eyes tell me that even looking beyond the current rash of injuries, we lack the organisation and cohesion to be competitive for 80 mins with the top teams.

Fwiw I could see us beating saints (who haven’t really been that impressive bar walloping the bottom teams) in the next game, it would be a very Leeds thing to do that then lose to Hull

Interesting if you read Redvee forum it’s like a carbon copy of this site with the nsmes Wellens and Smith swapped.

Funnily enough I fancy us for Saints too. Holroyd should be raring to go - I don't know if he's been fully fit all year, and this enforced absence with concussion might have done him the world of good actually. A fit Holroyd makes our pack much stronger (if he can keep his discipline).

If Croft is back, he makes a huge difference to us too - said before but I think he's worth 1-2 tries every game just through his assists.

If Newman is back, again we have that extra strike in the back line and some physicality.

RS needs to get the selection right but we're a definite chance. We also have 2 weeks to prepare for this game with the CC being a distraction, and we have revenge in mind after them turning us over twice at HQ. I reckon we should go well.

I'm praying for Papali'i at the moment, I think he'd be a real good addition if we can land him.

I hope you're right. I think it's unlikely we'll come away with anything from Saints though. We've generally lifted ourselves against them, but their 80 minute high intensity approach is like kryptonite to our mistake ridden, play in spurts style. I just want to see us go there and not play soft, which in my book means not giving it to them on a plate with knock ons in every other set, suicidal kicking, and letting the opposition camp out in our half for long stretches of the game. That would be significant progress and proof that the coach and players alike had used the break to address fundamental failings. And Jim, Saints are not in the CC Cup.

Oh yes! Well... I still think we have an advantage there because of injury recoveries, and I think Makinson is banned for them too?

The week off is needed for us.

Mistakes seem to have been a systemic problem for years, over various coaches. I don't know if the pressure of playing for Leeds gets to players, or whether it's just as simple as the players we've signed aren't good enough.

Obviously we need to manage our expectations at the moment but I fancy us for Saints. I'm really positive about the quality of the young players coming through at the moment too, next year one or two will be surprised at the new names starting to show up around first grade. I think we have a tactical gap at prop for a couple more years, but other than that we have players coming through in most positions. I'm going to make a bold statement but in terms of potential, ages 16-19 is very reminiscent of the goldens coming through.