True, but I was trying to make new more balanced points knowing that as usual you had already jumped in with your critique.

Jesus Christ why is everyone picking on lilley, he is 19 for gods sake played less than a dozen super league games, and just picked up sky mom award, we only got back into the game when he went to 7 we looked awful with burrow there. Both burrow and maguire were not super stars at the same age like some are suggesting, they both had blinding pace but we're both 21 before they we first choice. At 19 Ben walker and Ryan Sheridan followed by Sinfield duneman combo were are first choice right up to 2004. Some people need to get a serious grip.

I do consider Lilley's overall contribution to be greater than Sutcliffe's over the 80 minutes. Apart from his try, which he took well, Sutcliffe did nothing of note. The reason we are struggling is that we have a serious injury list including some key players which in addition to losing our two most influential players at the end of last season is something of a handicap. At the end of the day we won the game on Lilley's kicking skills and coolness under pressure..

Sutcliffe has just returned from a long term injury and as a 'work in progress' bench player has to play in the pivotal position with a youngster with only a few hours of SL experience in a team that has out of form senior players well below their best.

Lilley has confidence and a good attitude and possesses some very good rugby skills. He lacks experience and time in a settled winning side to progress further. My only worry is a lack of pace something he shares with Sutcliffe. I was one of just a few that expressed concerns pre-season regarding our deficiencies at half back. But we are where we are with recruitment and if we are going with the youngsters then they must be allowed to make mistakes and the time to develop into their roles or be replaced for next season.

I agree, two injury ravaged teams struggling to find last season's form.
Both teams will improve when the regulars return and make the top 8. However neither team will make the top 4 this season so Wembley is the only hope of silverware for both Giants and Rhinos.
Let's hope for a West Yorkshire final between both teams.

On current form we will not make the top 4 but I would expect our form to improve and when the injured return we could easily catch up the leaders who are only 6 points ahead and who could well have their own injury problems and dip in form still to come.

Indeed with Garbutt back next week and if JJB and Falloon were also to play we could still beat Wigan next week.

Delaney with 42 tackles struggled once again to maintain his position as our top tackler

What was the attendance last night?

Soaked, cold & thoroughly dispirited by our display I'd guess.

14,962 - all as OF said

Never quite understood why "top tackler" is held in such high regard as an accolade.

If you play long minutes in the middle unit and the other side play a forward focussed game, you're going to be asked to make a lot of tackles. It's why invariably the "top tackler" in SL at the end of the season is a hooker who plays 70-80 minutes a week (Alker, Houghton, Roby etc).

More important statistically is tackle effectiveness (% of tackles made against tackles attempted) and the quality of defensive efforts, i.e. how often does the tackler lose the contact allowing a quick play the ball which you cant necessarily measure statistically.

Not one for the purists but we dug in and got the win we desperately needed Singleton was my M.O.M but i also think Lilley played well at 7 despite being hammered and making a few errors when switched to 9.
I also thought Keinhorst and Mullally looked decent off the bench but again i question why on at least 4 occasions Baldwinson was up and ready to come on but wasn't used especially when Delaney was on lone leg from the start of the 2nd half in a forward dominated game against a big pack????
Hopefully we gain confidence and get 2/3 bodies back for the Pies game but saying that it doesn't sound too good for Moon/Handley.

I think Lilley gets credit for his goalkicking, but he made a terrible read for the winning try. It was Keinhorst's persistence that got him out of jail for blowing a clear 3 on 2 by kicking.

Because tackling is one of the key areas of rugby and the main one in defense and a player regularly making 40 tackles rightly should win accolades.



True as in the same way it is invariably the fullbacks that make the most metres. However Delaney is a back rower and makes tackles all over the field and is easily our top tackler this season with 153 in 4 games. Not bad for a player that has been described as playing on one leg.



So by this logic Briscoe is our most effective and important tackler having made just one tackle with no misses?. By all means consider the misses too but also take into consideration the players who consistently make highest numbers of tackles are usually the ones that also make more misses too. It goes with the job of a hard grafter who is more involved in the game ie: often the lead kick chaser misses the tackle but his chase has harried and slowed the receiver sufficiently to allow arriving teammates to then make the tackle. However this good work gets recorded as a miss. Similarly a player making a one on one tackle that brings the attacker to the ground can be recorded as a miss if not completed but again allows others to complete the tackle and stop the attack.

Lilley rightly should get credit for his goal kicking that won the match in the same way that Sinfield did.

I totally disagree that he made a terrible read in fact he should be praised for making the right split second decision.

When he received the ball both his outside men were covered and he showed good skill to try to draw their centre by not passing early. It was never a 3 on 2 but as he made the attacking kick it became a 2 on 1 as their centre was drawn to try and stop the kick opening up the space for Keinhorst to make his run and dive. Young Lilley showed skill, flair and a Mags type ability to create a match winning score. Had he passed and not kicked both Keinhorst and Hall were covered. Yes of course Keinhorst's tenacity was needed to make the score.

The proof of the pudding is that as a result of his play we won the match. Check out the highlights on the Rhinos site and go through the sequence pausing each second.

Don't you just love being a Leeds fan!!!

Lilley has shown up well in a season where he's no doubt had more game time than expected. Last year he did well against NZ and against the Cowboys he held his own. For me that's good enough. Being 19 and controlling a Super League is harder than any of us will ever know!!

FFS!!! People have opinions but why do so many on here have to air opinions that criticise our players, especially the youngsters. We have a terrible injury list to players in key positions. The guys in the team are battling it out (except against Widnes) and in the long run we'll be better for it. The experience they're gaining now will stand them in good stead.

And I can't work out how people don't rate Mullaly after a handful of games. He's hitting the ball up hard. Yeah, he's made some mistakes but that could be a case of trying too hard.