Mine too. I'm just not convinced smashing somebody in the face with your forearm is OK either. Less damaging, obviously, but still capable of damaging faces.

I have an impression (based on memory rather than stats) that his indiscipline causes too many problems for him to be considered to be getting the job done. I may be wrong though. I'm also not sure that conceding penalties while in possession doesn't count as "nonsense" to be honest.

As I say, facts and figures may show that I'm mistaken.

Have we been dominated by any packs of late?

Leeds haven't faced any packs of late.

Nope. Ignoring the opportunity to cast aspersions on the quality of pack we've faced lately (Huddersfield's pack tore us all sorts of new orifices so it depends what is meant by 'of late') I've been very impressed by several of our forwards over the last 3 games (JJB being the stand-out, but Clarkson, Ablett, Leuluai and Bailey have also been good) and Cross hasn't been one of them. Winning a forward battle doesn't immediately suggest that all your forwards have been awesome.

For the most part Cross does the basics OK, but I wonder why we needed to go to an Aussie to deliver OK. This may be a problem of expectations being too high I suppose.

Spot on. He does exactly what it says on the tin and he has shown a good work rate with allround stats as good or better than any of our other props.

I too would have liked us to have signed a really top quality prop when JP was injured. But as none were available we have ended up with an experienced, rough edged, tough NRL style prop who is getting on with his job and doing the hardwork and IMO will become a valuable member of the squad.

I can understand why some posters have felt that perhaps a couple of the younger "on loan" props could have stepped up to the mark. But at the time of signing Cross it would have been a quite a gamble considering Burgess had still to prove his fitness after his operation and Bailey not fit to start the season.

When compared with the other props Cross has made double the marker tackles, has made the 2nd best metres per carry and has made the 2nd best number of tackles per game. His stats have been achieved with less time on field so he has perhaps the best work rate of the props.

Props in order of games played

.........................Kirke.......Burgess.......Cross......Leuluai........Bailey......
Appearances.........12............10............10............9...............5.........
Metres...............768...........957..........645..........799............381........
Carries...............108...........145...........90...........117.............52........
Tackles..............246...........208..........215..........138............110........
Marker tackles......26............24............47............17..............13.......
Miss tackles.........14............13............17............17...............8........
Errors...................5..............3.............4..............3...............2.......
Penalties...............3..............5............6...............5...............4.......
Yellow Card...........0..............1............0.............. 0...............0.......
Red Card...............0..............0............0...............0...............1......
Metres/carry........7.11..........6.6.........7.17..........6.83............7.33.....
Tackles/game......20.5..........20.6.......21.5..........15.33............22.........
Metres/game.......64............95.7.......64.5...........88.78...........76.2......
Carries/game........9.............14.5........9..............13...............10.4......

Not actually that high on the penalty count. Perhaps it's just that his penalties are more eye-catching. Perhaps I have been too harsh and/or expected too much?

I think perhaps many expected too much of Cross and have been unfairly critical, when he is doing at the very least as well as any other prop, yet are prepared to overlook the faults and poor performance of their favourites.

Bailey has made a big improvement in his go forward (but this is only over 5 games so far) and Kirke has also shown a big improvement in the unaccustomed role of prop.

Spot on Juan.

That example falls into my book on his Technically Awful moments.

'clumsy' 'sloppy' et al

Least he could do no damage with us having a healthy lead and only 30 mins to play. Phew.

But not as bad an example as that of Bailey's latest Disciplinary Awful moment in losing his cool yet again and getting sent off. Dirty, bad tempered, cheap shot "et al"

At least after he was off we conceded less points than when he was on. "Phew"

Knew you couldn't resist bringing, form prop, TMFMISL into proceedings. You can't help yourself.

Glad you brought this example up actually, you never got round to explaining the negative impact this had on Leeds. Could you do so?

Weren't we 20-0 down when he was sent off? Hmmmm? Do your figures stack up just out of interest?

'losing his cool yet again' - bit of a stretch yet again. He's a prop, a bit of biff happened, man-up dude.

Where was the cheap shot by the way? Are you thinking of Cross on Myler?

If Cross intended to fend using an horizontal forearm then I guess it must have been deliberate first, poor technique second and perhaps clumsy third.

The incidents (viewed in isolation) were similar enough in that they both involved the ball carrier using a raised horizontal forearm as a fend/bumper. Both connected at chest level, both ended up above the shoulder.



No doubt although the two match ban was specifically for the fend with the forearm and not the preceeding incident. Ganson reported it as an elbow IIRC (arguably invented to justify a red card) and something the disciplinary panel dismissed .

The panel appear pre-disposed to support (rather than undermine) the officials when they have taken the ultimate in game sanction.