But was that defeat because Manly are so much better or because Leeds are so poor this season.

Can you ever accept success?

Despite all that, you haven't adressed the point that there have been a plethera of top Australian and Kiwi coaches taking most of the top coaching job in Britain for many years now. None of these (in your opinion) seems to have been anywhere near capable of lifting the fitness and conditioning level of British players to the same level as the NRL - have they just not wanted to use all their magic secrets on us? We have even had Australinas in charge of the game at a national level. So why would a junior, no-name Aussie second string backroom staff coach be able to contribute more than the A list of coaches who have already graced British RL? Why (which is the thing I have the issue with) do you think that our team are in place only because they are GH's buddies? They have clearly demonstrated the ability to have the team in great shape when needed.

The Manly game - well, we played a side that was better than us. Unless you haven't noticed that's happened a few times this year so that's a non-argument. There are other discussions on how our squad has shaped up this year and the tactics we are using which are far more relevent.

My sig. seems to be appropriate here I think.

Let's take this one on it's own.

"Fitness doesn't win matches, skill wins matches".

Do you know who said that and what his club achieved? Manly is the connection and the clue here.

Thomas the Tank Engine?

They are talking sense in your opinion. I call it knee jerking.

Yes, Leeds appear to have gone backwards but up until 3 games ago we were top of the league and in with a shout of the CC. Granted, results havent been good since then but I dont think it's time to panic just yet.
We had a bad spell in 2005 and reached both finals, 2006 even I questioned smith and it was ultimately a disappointing end to the season, 2007 we had a bad spell and won the comp and we even had a bad spell last year.

Thats the bit where you are confusing different posters Danny.

I dont give a flying feck that we were top of the league and in with a shout of the CC. The fact remains that we having been playing pish poor, and been dominated in nearly all the games. Even against oppossition that at the start of the season we would have considered embarrasing to have thought it.

Where you are correct is that some posters are Knee jerking, and only posting because of the defeats.

That however, does not go away from the problem that we currently have. This dip in form IMO is nothing like the one we had last year. The way we are currently playing is worse than anything we have seen IMO since 2002.

To question the whys and nots of this, is talking sense. Ignoring it is not.

But again, I agree that those, that would sink back under a rock once we start winning again, regardless of performance, should stick to hiding.

Is it because we've been found out on attack and needing to find a new way of working and having trouble settling?

The defence the last few weeks has certainly fallen apart and this worries me to some extent. Still dont think we've become a poor team overnight.

I thought the performace on Friday was the worst performace I had witnessed since we lost at Widnes in 2003.

What made it worse was thay you could see that Bradford was poor too, and we still couldn't beat them.

I would have expected a reaction against Salford, but obviously not.

The attack is predictable I agree there, we seem to be playing with a really deep attacking line, and just giving it through hands, there are no dummy runners or options for the half backs.

I've seen better attacking rugby in under 14 games.

there is no attack.it's just one out rugby.
the pack has been dominated and therefore we have so much more defence to do.
if we can get the forwards on top surely that will give the halves and backs the space to attack in and give us less defending to do

Yep thats the way I see it too. The likes of Gibson, Hall and Donald have been slated on here a bit recently but as you say the forwards arent giving them the space to work in.

Having said that from what I've seen (live TV games only I'm afraid) Ali and Peacock seem to be trying to go down the middle constantly. Peacock would be better mixing his game a bit and Ali always seems more dangerous running just inside the left centre.