Even though they are ones talking the sense?

Defeats is irrelevant. And yes, I accept that some are posting purely because of that.

But performances is more important, and ignoring that is just ridiculous.

Let's take your arguement on little - whenever an Aussie side has taken the WCC seriously and fielded a reasonable side they have beaten the SL comprehensively - anyone who watched this years WCC cannot deny the huge differentials in skill levels - Manley were in a different world to Leeds and they have struggled to win a game in their own league - doubt that Manley have many British coaches in their rosta.

Leeds is McClennan's first full time first grade job - he was not brought up in the NRL - yes he won the 2005 tri nations but with a squad that had been brought up - in the main - in the NRL and had the physicality and techniques ingrained in that league.

The coaching and conditioning techniques in the NRL are worlds apart from those in the UK - it is one of the major reasons we cannot compete at international level - as we move one step forward they move two - do you think Ellis would be a better and fitter player at Wests or if he had stayed at Leeds under the likes of Cummins or Poching?

Leeds conditioning in this league is OK mainly because of the numbers of poor sides physically as Manley showed they were unable to cope with a fit NRL side that is the difference - anyone who don't think that employing some training techniques used in the NRL would not benefit the players at Leeds is simply deluded. As is anyone who thinks Cummins and Poching can do a better job than Steven Kearney.

As has been said here standstill and you will get passed.

But was that defeat because Manly are so much better or because Leeds are so poor this season.

I can say what I want whether its relevent to the thread or not, I like to call it "freedom of speech", its gets me through even when I look like a complete lemon!!

Can you ever accept success?

Despite all that, you haven't adressed the point that there have been a plethera of top Australian and Kiwi coaches taking most of the top coaching job in Britain for many years now. None of these (in your opinion) seems to have been anywhere near capable of lifting the fitness and conditioning level of British players to the same level as the NRL - have they just not wanted to use all their magic secrets on us? We have even had Australinas in charge of the game at a national level. So why would a junior, no-name Aussie second string backroom staff coach be able to contribute more than the A list of coaches who have already graced British RL? Why (which is the thing I have the issue with) do you think that our team are in place only because they are GH's buddies? They have clearly demonstrated the ability to have the team in great shape when needed.

The Manly game - well, we played a side that was better than us. Unless you haven't noticed that's happened a few times this year so that's a non-argument. There are other discussions on how our squad has shaped up this year and the tactics we are using which are far more relevent.

My sig. seems to be appropriate here I think.

Let's take this one on it's own.

"Fitness doesn't win matches, skill wins matches".

Do you know who said that and what his club achieved? Manly is the connection and the clue here.

Thomas the Tank Engine?

They are talking sense in your opinion. I call it knee jerking.

Yes, Leeds appear to have gone backwards but up until 3 games ago we were top of the league and in with a shout of the CC. Granted, results havent been good since then but I dont think it's time to panic just yet.
We had a bad spell in 2005 and reached both finals, 2006 even I questioned smith and it was ultimately a disappointing end to the season, 2007 we had a bad spell and won the comp and we even had a bad spell last year.

Thats the bit where you are confusing different posters Danny.

I dont give a flying feck that we were top of the league and in with a shout of the CC. The fact remains that we having been playing pish poor, and been dominated in nearly all the games. Even against oppossition that at the start of the season we would have considered embarrasing to have thought it.

Where you are correct is that some posters are Knee jerking, and only posting because of the defeats.

That however, does not go away from the problem that we currently have. This dip in form IMO is nothing like the one we had last year. The way we are currently playing is worse than anything we have seen IMO since 2002.

To question the whys and nots of this, is talking sense. Ignoring it is not.

But again, I agree that those, that would sink back under a rock once we start winning again, regardless of performance, should stick to hiding.

Is it because we've been found out on attack and needing to find a new way of working and having trouble settling?

The defence the last few weeks has certainly fallen apart and this worries me to some extent. Still dont think we've become a poor team overnight.