We did exactly what you are suggesting with Plume. He was the successfull under 16's coach for a couple of years, was moved to under 19's to work with them. Then the problem that I highlighted, he moved away from what he was a success for, and took a different line, and it failed, then moving him up to first team.

The under 16's now is made up of coaches successfull in the junior game, there is a few of them, headed up by Mark Butterill and Steve Fox who are excellent coaches. I know Steve, and I doubt he would change the way he works if moved up.

The pathway you talk about isn't always possible, not because the route isn't there, but because most of these coaches have careers outside the game to support thier family's, and giving that up is not an easy decision.

Yeah like i said its dependant on the coaches wanting the jobs. Why did plume take a differant line to what was working for him and why would fox need to change the way he works if moved up? Is it something the club insist on that the coaches have to work a certain way?

Plume was a success at the younger age group due to the way he works and respect from players. At under 19 he was a middle man following instructions, that lost that respect. I did say Fox is not the type of coach to change his ways. To be fair to Hetherington though, he made changes, Morley was a change, and it may not work but he tried it, and I understand there is more changes to come. The under 16 set up this year is different to what the previous years were, and I suspect the under 19's will probably follow suit.

Its probably not important who the 19s coach is then,if theyr expected to follow somone elses instructions it dosnt matter if theyr a good coach or not

I did say to be fair to Hetherington, he has changed, and is changing things.

Thats good to know but shouldnt of got to that stage to start with....It takes me back to my original point tho,the approach of promoting from within cant be judged on how well plume did or didnt do when by the sound of it he wasnt given a fair chance,now that the 19's coach wont have to take instruction on how to work like plume had to i think it would be a good idea to revist that approach in future,reward good coaches for being good coaches(if they want it)

Don't think you need to worry about Butterill according to his dad he's Warrington bound for next year working fulltime with their 16s and 19s(A fulltime gig is something he's been chasing for a while and doesn't feel he will get an opportunity at Leeds as they go down the ex player route) . I agree with others though that in such a short space of time he's done a great job with the 16s. The numbers moving up are testimony to that . Guess we either get in an ex player or as discussed go into the community game for a replacement.

I wonder where that leaves Peter Williams at Warrington?

Is that the same Peter Williams who played RU & RL to a high level?

I wasn't worried about Butterill, I think he is an excellent coach, and was a step up for us. That proven by the fact you say looks Warrington bound. Says more about the Leeds club and it's poor focus in this area, than it does about the coach and the club employing, if what you say is true.

Yes, also George Williams' dad I think?

Would I be correct in saying that he played for Orrell in the late 70s/early 80s then went to play RL for Salford?
IIRC he represented England at RU.
Good pedigree for George, he's much stockier than his dad.