FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Rumours Thread 2014 |
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| Quote: G1 "Then you're actually as stupid as your recent posts would suggest you are.'"
Nice response
No doubt leeds will not produce any wingers, centres or fullbacks of any quality for the next decade, the reasons for that being self evident.
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| Has Clark signed yet?
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| If Smith has an agent, I'm hoping for his sake it isn't Show Me The Money agency.
All about the bottom line and their cut, not what is best for the player in terms of his career development from what I've heard.
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| Quote: craigizzard "It's an exception rather than a rule that young halfbacks break into the team in the pivot positions. The most talented kids will probably be playing their junior rugby at 6 but have to learn the ropes in another position before moving to the middle. This has applied to Holmes, Schofield, Hanley, Edwards, Harris, Lockyer, Kenny and a lot more. Hardaker, Moon, Sutcliffe and Ward are all in that template of junior stand-offs who may one day step back in, while the next kid off the rank slots in at centre or back row. Scrum-half is a bit different. We could do with finding one ready-made over the next few years.'"
Hardaker would be my best guess to move to 6 in the next couple of seasons (if we can keep hold of him). Sutcliffe is still so young, John Holmes had several years of first team experience before he moved to 6 full time. Personally I think Sutcliffe with his size, would end up at 13 before he ended up at 6 ( maybe the Sinfield path).
It would be interesting to see Moon get a run at 6, I remember the days of centre/stand offs like John Woods, Mike Smith, Steve Donlan, Neil Hague, Dave Creasser, Schoey and of course JH himself. Are we at a point now though where a 6 is not so much an essential pivot and more a high speed support player and lethal finisher?
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| Think we've some options to move to 6 in a few years like others have mentioned in Sutcliffe, Moon and Hardaker already plus whoever else might come along from the Academy.
It remains me of who would replace Webb at FB. A new signing? Lee Smith? BJB? Hardaker?
On that occasion it was the latter and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same guy again this time.
Sutcliffe (6) could be like BJB (FB), touted for one role coming through the ranks but as time moves on they look better in another role in the team.
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| If Hardaker switches to 6 or worse departs then the FB shirt will go to Ashton Golding should he continue his development and realise his undoubted potential the kid at the moment is electric and still only 17.
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "If Smith has an agent, I'm hoping for his sake it isn't Show Me The Money agency.
All about the bottom line and their cut, not what is best for the player in terms of his career development from what I've heard.'"
I sincerely hope what you've heard is wrong as they currently have Danny McGuire, Zak Hardaker, Thomas Minns, Alex Foster, Liam Sutcliffe, Brad Singleton, James Duckworth, Elliot Minchella, Josh Sunley and Ben White on their books.
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| Quote: rhinoms "If Hardaker switches to 6 or worse departs then the FB shirt will go to Ashton Golding should he continue his development and realise his undoubted potential the kid at the moment is electric and still only 17.'"
He might be electric with ball in hand. But he can not defend for toffee. He seriously needs to improve that part of his game if he is going to come close to getting a chance at Hardakers shirt.
It's the same in the 16's also. Mazive is great with ball in hand, but just like through his youth club days, he can not defend.
We struck gold with Hardaker, and his defensive abilities. Hard to be so good at that part of the game.
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| Defence can be coached and I'm not 100% in agreement that he cant "defend for toffee" he is a bit light weight in contact defensively nor am I saying he is ready for SL now but I think he has stacks of potential and is class in attack.
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| Quote: rhinoms "Defence can be coached '"
Yes, at under 12's. Of the highlights I have seen, got to say, I don't just think his defence is bad, I think it is shocking.
His ability with the ball masks this issue, and to be fair at that level it probably can, but not at super league. It is something he needs to work on personally, rather than coaching.
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| Highlights?
I'm not after a tit for tat type of point scoring debate but i've been to quite a few games & I wouldn't describe his defence as you have.
Highlights don't show when he has made try saving tackles and there have been plenty.
I absolutely agree it's not as good as ZH but there are plenty of SL NOW not as good as he is.
I also agree he has to work on it as well but like I said it can be coached or are you saying at 17 Defence can't be Coached?
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| Quote: rhinoms "Highlights?
I'm not after a tit for tat type of point scoring debate but i've been to quite a few games & I wouldn't describe his defence as you have.
Highlights don't show when he has made try saving tackles and there have been plenty.
I absolutely agree it's not as good as ZH but there are plenty of SL NOW not as good as he is.
I also agree he has to work on it as well but like I said it can be coached or are you saying at 17 Defence can't be Coached?'"
I wasn't having a tit for tat. I agree with the point you have made, and it is only highlights.
I am just saying from that his defence is always questionable. If it was individual times, then it is not an issue, but there has being plenty tries scored against where you would expect your fullback to have stopped it. If he is having a problem at that level, then he certainly would at super league.
I am not saying at 17 defence can not be coached, I am saying it should not have to be. The coaching on defence at that level should be on systems, not on individual tackling. That is done at under 12's.
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| Quote: rhinoms " but like I said it can be coached or are you saying at 17 Defence can't be Coached?'"
Both defence and tackling (two completely different things) can be coached at any age. One thing you can't coach is pace.
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| Quote: DHM "Both defence and tackling (two completely different things) can be coached at any age. One thing you can't coach is pace.'"
True, but there have been players with pace that for whatever reason have failed to develop these skills. Kevin Penny and Leroy Rivett are two hyped examples.
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| Quote: Gotcha "I wasn't having a tit for tat. I agree with the point you have made, and it is only highlights.
I am just saying from that his defence is always questionable. If it was individual times, then it is not an issue, but there has being plenty tries scored against where you would expect your fullback to have stopped it. If he is having a problem at that level, then he certainly would at super league.
I am not saying at 17 defence can not be coached, I am saying it should not have to be. The coaching on defence at that level should be on systems, not on individual tackling. That is done at under 12's.'"
The problem is that full back tackling technique is very different to every other position, so it's often not coached at amateur level. Partly for valid reasons (you might not have an identified full back in your team/he might not come every week/it's not always helpful to specialise at such a young age) and partly for "wrong" reasons (the standard of amateur coaching is quite poor/skills in general aren't taught enough at amateur level).
Also at academy level you get into much more intricate skills such as holding players up over the line, which I highly doubt is coached at amateur level.
Not to mention both the physical and mental development of players happens at different ages, he might be currently lacking the strength or dexterity required to consistently pull off good tackles, or the perception or confidence to do so. All of which can come naturally in the years to come.
Also, some people (I'm not necessarily saying you do here, it's a general comment) forget that these lads aren't full time and that, especially with young lads, there's only so much training you can do with them each week before it starts negatively affecting their development rather than positively.
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