Sorry to hear about your illness. A ruthless management perhaps would have released Diskin sooner (after completing the signing of Buderus) rather than extending his existing contract still further during the 2010 season, although not to extend his deal as part of the mythical 'Magnificent Seven' announcement in the middle of his Testimonial season would have perhaps looked eh for want of a better word ..... ruthless.

No they are not infallable. I have had many many a discussion about the merits of one signing or another. However I think sometimes we have to accept that the people who make these decisions know a lot more than we do. To say the club has been mismanaged given our recent success and the current squad at our disposal is frankly, laughable.




We improved the squad. Yes, there were probably other areas of greater need at the time. Yet the squad was still good enough to win the title the following year. I questioned the need at the time but was still bloody excited about seeing Danny Buderus in a Leeds shirt. We are certainly in a stronger position now than we were at the end of 2008.




Idle speculation. There is nothing to suggest this is true. We had a fairly good record against Hull and Bradford I would expect with the two of them in the squad.




OK compare his one peformance (against Salford on Easter Monday??) with that of last week and they are leagues apart. Sending him to Harlequins was clearly the right decision at the time. Whether he should have been recalled is a matter for debate. I still think he gained more from being the main man in his prime position at Quins than he would have been playing all over the backline filling in for Leeds.




Donald was part of a period of unrivalled success for the club. His from was never that poor in 2009 and to suggest Broughton, after very little SL experience would have replaced him successfully would have been a gamble from the club. They had worked with him every day and obviously didn't think he was ready in 2010. he has since proved otherwise and good luck to him. I am happy enough with our wing options at present. For every Jodie Broughton there is a Leroy Rivett around the corner



I'm not sure Broughton has been replaced by hardaker at all. More, we have snapped up a kid with bags of potential looking towards the future. I would guess it has cost fairly little in comparison at present.

Thanks.

I completely agree, Ferguson got rid of Beckham, Stam, Keane etc ruthlessly and has been successful since. I really rate Diskin, was a fantastic player for the club but it was clear to see Leeds do not need a two hooker system that included Buderus and Diskin. I was excited by the signing of Buderus but at the time an unnecessary signing unless we were going to offload ruthlessly. Which I don't mind as long as we are progressing preferably with young English players.

I agree it would be if that is what was happening here. Posters are debating individual decisions taken, not seeking to throw the baby out with the bathwater.



So isn't it a pity that we haven't seen enough of Buderus when he's been available over the last two seasons and isn't it exciting now that we might get to this season?



I'm not speculating about Leeds' recent record against Hull And Bradford (that is available for all to see) I'm speculating that had Diskin still been at Leeds this season we would still be seeing the mandatory substitution policy employed for the last two seasons when both were available (although with a new coach, perhaps not) and that loss of direction could have cost Leeds in a tight game.



So there weren't wing performances as such in 2009 to judge against afterall. Do the Harlequins have superior coaching resources, do they have a better track record at developing youngsters? What we see now was always there.

I agree Jones-Bishop needed SL exposure I just felt that opportunity could have come at Leeds in 2010 at the expense of Donald who was going through the motions.



Did Broughton not also represent that at the time?

Broughton was already on the books having progressed through the Headingley system, waiting for an opportunity at his hometown club. Hardaker has been recruited from outside the club from the Championship (a comparative unknown quantity - representing a bigger risk - I hope he makes it) and has cost the club a sizeable signing on fee.



No worries. We're all friendly here.

do you not think tvoc that having come through the system the coaches who had seen him for years were best place to judge if we kept him or not?

Of course.

Does that make their decision infallable? The same set-up have made other decisions some would take issue with.

To remind folk of my position at the time (that was during the 2009 season not looking back with the benefit of glorious hindsight from where we are today) was basically that it was time to say thank you and so long to the soon to be out of contract Scott Donald and for his place to be taken in the 1st grade squad by one of the Academy prospects Watkins/Broughton/Jones-Bishop.

All three had the potential, all three I would have liked to see integrated into the 1st grade squad occupying the future full-back, wing and centre positions.

Donald (a decidedly average antipodean) was effectively blocking their 1st grade opportunity in the short-term and to what end?

The departures of Donald and Diskin ripped the heart out of one particular poster on this forum, especially considering that the very same poster had been quite vitriolic towards Eastwood for reneging on his contract.

I for one hope he makes a full and speedy recovery.

Leeds have enjoyed unparallelled success during an era in which many of our juniors have shown unswerving loyalty to the club. GH has, mainly, returned that loyalty. Has any club ever had a cluster of testimonials to match Leeds these last seven years?

The whole system is built around that reciprocal loyalty. It's the foundation to building a team rather than assembling a squad of the most talented individuals in every position. It's crucial and without it I doubt we'd have retained some of the stars we have. Re-read Kevin Sinfield's post Grand Final speech 2009 and have a think again about whether Leeds should "ruthlessly" discard players that have served them so well.

It has worked very, very well.

Donald was a decidedly average player in your opinion. That is the whole basis of your gripe with his retention and the feeling it cost us Broughton. The reason I think your view is flawed is two fold. Donald was an excellent winger, one of the best in the league. Broughton has still to show anything remotely reaching the levels Donald did and probably won't get the chance because he wasn't prepared to wait for it, unlike his contemporaries now enjoying the limelight at Leeds rather than the low-lights at Salford.

So we both agree that Leeds were not ruthless in their treatment of Diskin after securing the signature of the world class Buderus.

I guess I must have been correct in disputing the comparison being drawn to Alex Ferguson, whoever he is. Thanks for your support on this occassion.

Thank goodness they weren't or I wonder if we'd have secured that record setting 3rd consecutive GF.

Something to do with football I think. I've no idea if the comparison is valid as I have no interest in the sport.

Not a sentiment I would imagine many of the players who have provided our club with it's most successful era ever could pass on to you.

Decidedly average antipodean I think I said (although I stopped short of calling him abysmal unlike one noted supporter) and therein lies an important distinction in an age of salary caps and supposed overseas trained quotas. It's not too nuianced an argument for you to appreciate I'm sure. Broughton had already shown and continues to do so that he would have been capable of replacing Donald (at a similar level - in my opinion of course) and continue the fine Academy legacy everyone is rightly so proud of at Headingley.

For reasons unknown (perhaps not even rugby ability related) he was not offered a contract (unless you can show otherwise - and you've never managed it so far) so I'm unsure where the patience he was supposed to show angle comes from.



Depends how you define 'support.'

I've never taken the sycophantic approach preferring to keep it real and speak as I find.

We all have our crosses to bear. You are probably Ian Kirke's not that I take issue with that.

I would have thought it was fairly clear that the club has shown enormous loyalty to the playing squad over the last few years, and had that returned in large part. It seems pretty 'ruthless' to me (for want of a better word) to start changing things significantly towards the end of the club's first trophyless season in 4 years. Whilst we were winning things turning over the squad in numbers would have been closer to insane than ruthless.

That's my impression of what happened last year, and Hetherington started to implement Plan B pretty much straight away after the CC final - he was clearly very very unhappy with how Leeds performed on the day.

So your issue is/was his place on the quota, rather than his ability?

We will have to respectfully disagree on the level Broughton has already attained.


I have no evidence to suggest he wasn't? Do you?

Me too. I doubt my expressed views on Kirke and the hero worship bestowed upon Buderus would hardly be described as sycophantic. Surely you're not resorting to saying I am sycophantic because my opinion differs to yours? Our debates may well be repetitive in nature but they have always been a step above that.

Should Kirke continue to display the kind of performance he did Friday night he shall have my wholehearted, sycophantic if you will, support. I like to think I am as objective as you, just perhaps from the opposite spectrum of optimism/cheerfulness.

No, my issue was with the contribution he was making on the field during 2009 (you described his performances over the first half of that season as abysmal), together with his commitment to the future and whether that could and should be replaced from within by one of the rising stars, while acknowledging in a salary cap and supposed quota restricted sport those factors would count against him also.



Kind of (in print from the YEP) but not as a directly attributable quote from either the player or the CEO. The point being I don't recall him turning down an offer to stay at Leeds (and I suspect neither do you) so the charge that he wasn't prepared to wait for an opportunity seems based on a unproven assumption. Without a contract offer being made for him to reject there's not a lot he could have done bar move on in that situation.

Perhaps his full-time studies in Doncaster were not compatable with his schedule at Headingley, it was stated when he went on loan to Hull that the move would allow him to do both. Who knows all the ins and outs and whether every decision is based on ability alone.




I know.