Sinfield said the culture was rotten when he came in. What does that say about where it is now. This is incomprehensibly inept in every department.

There are 3 models to replace influential leaders. Order affirmer, Order creator, or Order Shatterer. Whilst we weren't specifically replacing one particular leader, in terms of a head coach, I think it's relevant in the context of moving on from our 'golden era'. We've tried to go down the 'order affirmer' route, keeping remnants of the golden era under the guise of ''continuing on the culture'' as you mentioned. Liverpool were very successful with this model in the 70's and 80's, consistently replacing their figurehead with a new one nurtured within the system - Shankly, Paisley, Dalglish, etc, the affirmers. The problem is, this model was tremendously successful because of the squad replenishment that took place, there was always a fresh squad ready for the new guy. The most obvious example of an order shatterer would be Clough taking over from Revie at Leeds united.

That brings us to the rhinos, by the end, the squad was running on fumes, it was done. We'd actually stagnated years earlier before it become truly apparent, but big game players, running on fumes carried the team despite poor league finishes and poor week-in-week-out form. We've made a lame attempt to go down the order affirmer route, Sinfield came in as DoR, Furner - a former grand final winner with us, was installed as
as head coach.

Not all of this exactly fits, but you get the general idea. We needed an 'Order creator' model, we didn't want to ''shatter'' (start from scratch) but instead tweak and go in a new direction. We've failed. We're in the cycle of failure now. 6 seasons will become 8, 8 will then become 10, and then you're looking at a decade without a title, nearly one third of what we had before 2004.

Let's remember it's quite a long time since the golden generation and we haven't even stood still . We should have remained in contention after 2017 ,but weve been perilously close to relegation and it looks like we are again .

And that's the problem. If Hetherington no longer has the drive to go for success, can I be bothered to engage with the team, put money into the club, go to any games? Not really, the competition overall is poor, and saints will win it again. It's not very interesting anymore.

Do you remember in 2012 when we were going through a bad run, and Hetherington was questioning whether that team had had it's day? That was a squad that had won 6 grand finals (at the time).

These days he's happy to plod along in mediocrity for 3 years under Agar. Cool.

A case of Groundhog day again.Some squad members are stealing a living.It's unfathomable that we are at the top of the salary cap with this squad.A quality coach maybe brought in but looking at the tools he will have to work with he's got his work cut out to improve the quality and skill set of this squad.

It wasnt just lacking confidence today they looked frightened to death

Season is a long, long way from over.
We have some massive relegation battles coming up!!

Quote: FlexWheeler "There are 3 models to replace influential leaders. Order affirmer, Order creator, or Order Shatterer. Whilst we weren't specifically replacing one particular leader, in terms of a head coach, I think it's relevant in the context of moving on from our 'golden era'. We've tried to go down the 'order affirmer' route, keeping remnants of the golden era under the guise of ''continuing on the culture'' as you mentioned. Liverpool were very successful with this model in the 70's and 80's, consistently replacing their figurehead with a new one nurtured within the system - Shankly, Paisley, Dalglish, etc, the affirmers. The problem is, this model was tremendously successful because of the squad replenishment that took place, there was always a fresh squad ready for the new guy. The most obvious example of an order shatterer would be Clough taking over from Revie at Leeds united. That brings us to the rhinos, by the end, the squad was running on fumes, it was done. We'd actually stagnated years earlier before it become truly apparent, but big game players, running on fumes carried the team despite poor league finishes and poor week-in-week-out form. We've made a lame attempt to go down the order affirmer route, Sinfield came in as DoR, Furner - a former grand final winner with us, was installed as as head coach. Not all of this exactly fits, but you get the general idea. We needed an 'Order creator' model, we didn't want to ''shatter'' (start from scratch) but instead tweak and go in a new direction. We've failed. We're in the cycle of failure now. 6 seasons will become 8, 8 will then become 10, and then you're looking at a decade without a title, nearly one third of what we had before 2004.'" Because you mentioned another sport,soccer,and you allude to change,after success,you may find of interest information from a player of another sport,who was also a success. Some coaches rely on stats,data and analysis.Please check further input from Ben Darwin - Team Work Index and Gain Line Analytics - it may be food for thought. https://www.chiefmaker.com/cohesion-ana ... -too-soon/ https://www.afr.com/companies/sport/dar ... 323-gv4yuj

Quote: FlexWheeler "There are 3 models to replace influential leaders. Order affirmer, Order creator, or Order Shatterer. Whilst we weren't specifically replacing one particular leader, in terms of a head coach, I think it's relevant in the context of moving on from our 'golden era'. We've tried to go down the 'order affirmer' route, keeping remnants of the golden era under the guise of ''continuing on the culture'' as you mentioned. Liverpool were very successful with this model in the 70's and 80's, consistently replacing their figurehead with a new one nurtured within the system - Shankly, Paisley, Dalglish, etc, the affirmers. The problem is, this model was tremendously successful because of the squad replenishment that took place, there was always a fresh squad ready for the new guy. The most obvious example of an order shatterer would be Clough taking over from Revie at Leeds united. That brings us to the rhinos, by the end, the squad was running on fumes, it was done. We'd actually stagnated years earlier before it become truly apparent, but big game players, running on fumes carried the team despite poor league finishes and poor week-in-week-out form. We've made a lame attempt to go down the order affirmer route, Sinfield came in as DoR, Furner - a former grand final winner with us, was installed as as head coach. Not all of this exactly fits, but you get the general idea. We needed an 'Order creator' model, we didn't want to ''shatter'' (start from scratch) but instead tweak and go in a new direction. We've failed. We're in the cycle of failure now. 6 seasons will become 8, 8 will then become 10, and then you're looking at a decade without a title, nearly one third of what we had before 2004.'" Because you mentioned another sport,soccer,and you allude to change,after success,you may find of interest information from a player of another sport,who was also a success. Some coaches rely on stats,data and analysis.Please check further input from Ben Darwin - Team Work Index and Gain Line Analytics - it may be food for thought. https://www.chiefmaker.com/cohesion-ana ... -too-soon/ https://www.afr.com/companies/sport/dar ... 323-gv4yuj

The seasons not over but what we do in the next month is very very important. Go back to Saints sacking Cunningham, I believe they got a walloping of Cas in the CC but they did something about it, quickly!

Just depends hours you look at it. If loosing mates you angry and miserable then yes. I must say the watching the game live perspective and all that it involved, is still worth it. I don’t watch on TV anymore as must say, don’t think that’s worth the time…..

Well that's what a top coach is for, to maximise the ability of their players. At the moment we do have a few players who are not good enough, but they are being massively utilised by being poorly coached. A decent coach would get plenty more out of this group, but to challenge for honours you need to replace some of the deadwood too

A positive season is over and all there is left is a relegation dog fight in the hope that Leeds beat Toulouse home and away plus a few other scraps here and there.

The problem stems from the top and Leeds will not enter a new era until Hetherington stops treating the club as his toy. What he did in the past was positive but he is bereft of new ideas and has not moved with times like other clubs such as St Helens, HKR, Warrington & Catalan.

Unless Hetherington goes Leeds will end up doing what Chris Caisley forced Bradford into who now count their fans in the hundreds not thousands.

FOR GOD SAKE HETHERINGTON GO

Just after we had appointed Furner and were struggling, my wife went to a conference in London for her industry. Sinfield was a speaker there. After whilst 'networking' *vomit* she had a chance to chat with him and she asked him what he thought was the issue. He said basically after himself etc had left the core was gone and they were living on past glories.

So, when he joined. Why wasn't that sorted out?

Furner would have sorted that! He basically called JJB out for talking a load of jibberish, and said we needed massive clear out. JJB is best mates with Sinny. The rest is history!

Need to stop resigning players past their sell by date.