Why do you have to be so patronising Andy?

Your points are 100% valid and accurate, but nobody has questioned "winning things". I don't believe the posts thus far are to do with not winning again, I know mine certainly isn't. The fact is what we are experiencing now, certainly in my case, I saw it coming in 2009 and voiced those very opinions on here. The CEO didn't or chose not to see it, and that for me is a fundamental failure in his role.

As for "trophies" that can't happen for all teams in a season, and is unlikely to happen to more than two. Leeds have slipped from been one of the top two to been the sixth, and probably lower still next season as it stands. Competing for the main trophy (GF) is all that most want, with priority on playing a good standard of rugby.

Running an RL club you have to play a long term game and that is what you will be measured on. As to whether he is an astute businessman, firstly I would point out that whilst GH is not merely a public figurehead he is not the sole person who runs the club and makes the decisions.

It is impossible for us as yet to know yet what the ground redevelopment game he is playing is. However looking backwards at "business deals" rather than player recruitment judgements it is worth noting:

1. He set up an expansion club, made it successful, sold it for decent £££.
2. He found a good partner, encouraged the partner to buy Leeds RLFC, and the pair got a ridiculous amounts of assets, just waiting to be exploited, for a pittance.
3. He has managed to make the RL club pay its way, aided by the assets that they acquired for next to nowt.
4. July 1997. He signs Daryl Powell, Phil Cantillon, Rob Roberts, Darren Fleary & 5 others (who were they again?!) for a total of £25k. Powell alone had cost Keighley £135k two years earlier.
5. Iestyn Harris - managed to effectively sell the same player twice, screwing the first buyers til the pips squeaked and getting the second buyers to "buy" him without realising it! Genius!
6. He oversaw the sale of 51% of a disastrously loss making RU venture to Leeds Met, getting them to agree to fund all the losses going forward. Then, once Leeds Met realised they'd been done out of millions, he effectively made them pay to take the whole thing back off their hands again.

What happens going forward and what the consequences of current or more recent negotiations are is open to question but his track record speaks for itself. People doubted him in 02/03 and it came good not long after. He shouldn't be given blind support but since we don't know everything which goes on at a club it's hard to make full judgements until things play out. At present there are quite a lot of open questions.

How else are we judging the performance of a Chief Executive of a major sporting club if not by the fiscal health of the club (first and foremost IMO, as without it there would be no club there at all) and the competitiveness of the team on the field?

I'll say it again - Leeds Rugby have a balance sheet the envy of just about every other rugby league club in the northern hemisphere. They've had success both on and off the field over the last 15 years.

Yes the last two years have not been at the same standard as the preceding three, but that level of performance was simply unsustainable - a look into the history of the sport should be enough to show that. When Wigan fell from their position of superiority in the 90s, they did so with massive debts forcing them to liquidate their prime asset and were fortunate that the town's football club was able to provide them with a home. More recently, they were almost relegated and only survived by breaching the salary cap.

If Leeds slide to that level then I'll concede that Hetherington has lost the plot. In the meantime I'll settle for remaining solvent and a few seasons in the 4th-7th bracket if that's what it takes - it's still a damned sight better state of health than we were under the previous administration.

The fact the club own its own stadium has little to do we GH and his abilities - he inherited it when he took over.

Fans expect one of the two biggest clubs in the league to be competitive at the highest level, is this unrealistic maybe to you Andy. Let's face it you die hards!! will not be happy until the club regains the mantle of perenial under achievers - much happier when the club had no possibility of winning anything. I cannot understand this masochistic view but it pervades through yourself, Gareth, Danny etc.

It only takes one/two bad years to fritter away 10/15 years of solid performance. The club need the sponsorship coin, but if you were a potential sponsor would you want your brand attached to a another brand on a downward spiral? I understand GH was embarrassed at a couple of corporate presentations earlier in the year when he couldn't justify a call for sponsors to sign and pay up front for 3 years worth of sponsorship other than saving inflation!! These people are not idiots why should they spend their money with a company with a CEO who seems out of touch. A major infrastructure project isn't something you say one minute has to be done and next minute you aren't doing it.

If you can point me to a club that has had a sustained 15-20 year period of success on and off the field with no dips or troughs at any point in the history of the game David, I'm quite happy to accept that this what Leeds should be achieving.

Otherwise, I don't think it unreasonable to recognise that it just doesn't happen.

Nice to know you've lumped me in with two people whose opinions on the game I respect and have a lot of time for though, thanks.

He never said 15-20 year of success did he? wasn't it "solid performance" that he said?

Whilst I said above you came up with valid arguments 100% accurate. What you fail to see as a counternance to your argument is that the solid balance sheet you talk of came on the back of prolonged success, including two challenge cup finals and five Grand Finals. How do you expect that to continue if you are not in the same finals?

Everything you talk of as good off the field will soon diminish, as we prolong with a weakened side on the field, and more importantly a ground that does not compete with most of it's competitors. Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Huddersfield, and soon to be Hull and Catalans, are already leaving us behind on the field, off it ground wise and potential they will be light years ahead. With Salford, Cas, Widnes, not that far behind in that department.

Yep, When it comes to GH, I'm firmly in the MJM/Gilder camp, and take a fairly relaxed view that he has a pretty good idea of where this club is going.

Let me ask one thing. If the Leeds Board of Directors were thinking along the lines that the £6/10 million expenditure in the Southstand, plus the cost of the Northstand rebuild didn't make great financial sense.

Would we, as fans be too upset if a new stadium to the East of Leeds, or indeed, a shared facility somewhere down the ring road Pudsey way, was the way forward?

I love Headingley, but am not blind to its many defects as regards a 21st Century sporting venture, and simply wonder, if with their business hats on, Caddick et al could get a better and more secure return on the Rhinos brand from a different location.

Explain to me how Huddersfield and Hull FC - who are tenants to SMCs - are going to be "light years ahead" of Leeds in the near future? If it wasn't for Ken Davy underwriting cheap season tickets the Giants would still be playing to a quarter full stadium in which they have absolutely zero capital interest.

As for the comments about Salford, Cas and Widnes "not being far behind".

The time to do that would have been when YCCC were sold on the idea of moving to Durkar.

Too much investment has gone into the complex since to make moving away commercially justifiable, and that's before you get into the issue of how you raise the funds to finance a brand new 20-25k capacity stadium.

Although I believe GH Knows what he is doing some recent activity questions that, I would like to see ground develop over time but not at the expense of the on field team, the bulls may never recover for years from having a poor team over the past few years not that I am bothered I just dont want us to spiral downwards in the same manner as a successful team has good support and any potential new stand needs to be full to help pay for it.

Get real Andy, 15 years - which figment of your imagination did that come from!!! all the fans are asking is that the club has a squad and facilities befitting the financial investment they have made. Given they are, after Wigan, the best supported club with the largest revenue streams it is not unreasonable. 4th to 7th is OK - it is true you do hanker after the days when following Leeds was a form of masochiam

I always assumed that the Headingley complex cost Caddick/Hetherington the £6 million debt accrued under the previous ownership. We certainly got to hear about the debt for several seasons thereafter as the first 'cheque' written each month was the one to service it.

Perhaps it's fair to call £6million (in 1997) a pittance for the complex but it's not a term I'd use in 2011 considering it's still a sporting venue rather than the site of a Hyper market or retail park.

Couldn't have really been timed much better this could it....

rlSuper League licensing summaries publishedrl

That is correct - debt was extinguished when the cricket ground was sold to YCCC for 11m?