Why do you think it's down to the coach if players choose to fly out of the defensive line, or lose patience with the match officials and start giving away penalties - neither of these areas are exclusive to McDermott being in charge, both were being pointed out as failings of the team under both Smith and McLennan?

Difference under the other two is that the players still had the hunger and natural ability to dig themselves out of the holes they had created. Once your abilities start to decline, it's harder to cover up the other deficiencies in your game. A number of this Leeds squad are in decline but have benefitted from Hetherington showing an unusual. irrational level of loyalty. Hopefully some of the recent results will have given the CEO a timely reminder that sport has no place for misguided loyalty.

If the players were deciding their own defensive and attacking structures we wouldnt have need for a coach. But they dont, different teams employ different tactics. We this season are employing different tactics to what we employed last season. Some of those arent working.

The players probably do know when to offload and when not, when to respect possession and when to throw it about a bit, how to tackle, but other coaches have evolved and know when our players think its the right time to do these things and how we are going to go about it, they know our defensive structure and what to do to give themselves the best chance of getting around it so we will struggle to beat them.

With better structures, both attacking and defensive our players will have a better chance of performing to the best of their abilities with the converse true for the opposition.

There is no reason this squad of players cannot challenge for trophies. They won the league less than two seasons ago, for the third time in a row. You dont lose that level of quality in the space of two seasons through normal attrition. These players are capable of challenging, winning is another matter, but challenging certainly.

But yet they have nothing to back that up with.

A kid who gets a E on his exams could have done better and should have got a D. Is that really something to be happy about?




How tad. How would they improve it? You are using examples in the case of Smith, Brown, and McGuire who have had the benefit of coming into clubs with players with an hunger and wanting to improve with years ahead of them, and all of the coaches having their say on recruitment.

I'll give you what Murray did for us was a case of taking poor players beyond what you would expect. But that was 12 and 13 years ago tad. The games moved on massively since then. Those same standard players would never have done the same with the competition now, and therefore I would definately question whether Murray could repeat that.

You are dealing with a group of players who have put their body's on the line for a lot of years, and player's who have won everything they need to. There isn't the hunger for them to push their body's further, and nothing left to give. That is the fundamental problem of what we have now. And for any coach that needs to change in order for it to be a success.

of course we need new blood, i said that 2 years ago. but we are a shambles. a good coach will organise a team.

So where back to the main point. New blood is required. I have no problem in a new coach and probably prefer it, although been fair I do think McDermott deserved a fair crack with his own players, and think he could come good. But priority for me is the players, and the fact that a lot of them are shot. Posters saying we would be back with a new coach on it's own are deluding themselves.

And once the game kicks off he is entirely reliant on the players being able to stick to the instructions and gameplan he's given them.

I doubt that anywhere in McDermott's gameplan does it include dropping off one-on-one tackles, being unable to pass the ball in a backwards direction when linking into the line or generally standing around at marker like a lost kid in a school playground.

If the players don't execute, even the greatest coaches are stuffed. Right now, too many Leeds players don't look like being capable of executing even the basics that are asked of them - run, catch, pass and tackle.

Too many players whose careers have past their peak and are on a downward slide, supplemented by youngsters who aren't quite there yet.

Maybe better defensive structures and tactics would mean less one-on-one tackles to be made and as such fewer players dropping off the tackle in a one-on-one tackle. Maybe better attacking structures and tactics would mean we wouldnt need to be throwing out long flat passes from fullback for them to be thrown forward. Maybe, like Warrington we could be looking at shorter flat passes putting players through the gaps created by a structured attack.

Maybe we wouldnt be dropping so much ball if we werent trying to pass in traffic to our centres inside our own 20 against fresh defences.

I dont doubt that McDermott's gameplan doesnt include the bad things we are doing but im not confident that they arent an unintended consequence of it.

I must admit when I heard we had appointed McDermott I was far from happy knowing his record at Harlequins. All I could assume is that during his stint previously as assistant coach at Headingley he showed enough talent and ambition to convince GH that with a better squad (most of ours had being involved in 3 winning Grand Finals on the trot) that he was Bluey's natural successor.
I must admit the recent signings have been at best third rate, Hauraki,Cross,Delaney - average players at best, not worth using up oversees quotas on. If we are signing players from oversees then they have to be better than waht we can sign from Super League, else theres no point at all.
Another point is Im not sure how fit we are..when i watch Wigan,St Helens,Warrington and most of all Huddersfield - we seem light years behind. The line speed is far quicker than ours.
Im sorry but listening to McDermott's after match interviews just infuriate me. He looks like a coach who uses his arrogant behavior to prevent any worthwhile questions being asked !!! he clearly doesnt want to be there, so why bother at all !!!
Questions like "If Burrow needs a rest, give him a rest and let McShane play" "Where is Clarkson lately" "Where is Cross lately"
You can only play so many lightweights in ur pack and get away with it - Ablett,BJB,Hauraki,Sinfield - they just dont have the muscle power to worry opposition forwards, and the masterplan of offloading at every possible opportunity to "tire out the opposition" is an absolute joke and if thats the best McDermott can come up with then im afraid its time GH gave him the hard word

what is graham murray doing is he out of the game? i'd have him back in a flash he moulded a team of a few jouneymen some good young kids and a few good internationals and turned them into quite a team, as terry newton (rest his soul) states in his book he was the coach who came up with the 2 hooker system which most teams now use and that he was the best coach he played under.

Gotcha,

What did you think of the group of players at Warrington before Tony Smith's arrival?

Just to add i've not posted anywhere that it's just the coaches fault and i was one of the few that said give him the season.
I'm also fully aware of our past exploits both with the success and our faults with discipline but lets be honest if you are not laying any responsabillity at the coaches door then why do we have a coach?
This team should not of drawn with Wigan nor was the 17 selected a 30-0 2nd half team against Wire no matter how good they were and whether it's organisational ,motivational or just sheer attitude and grit a quality coach could and would of made a difference to the structures and tactics.
We aren't talking one offs or freak performances we had 2 of our form players not even selected in Burgess and Clarkson and another one carrying the kicking tee now many times when it's suited your argument Gotcha have you have had a go at the coach re-selection ,tactical or otherwise and this is one of those times where the coach deserves as much stick as the players for that performance last week and failurse thus far.
Also not once have i posted we would be winning trophies with just a new coach in place but at least we'd be competing and have our "form" 17 on the park.
No-one within the 1st team set up be it coaches or players are beyond criticism when efforts like friday are produced nor should they be and lets not be patronising either G there's no delusional thoughts if someone thinks a better coach would do better it's a staricht forward opinion not a pi$$ing comp.

You mean the one's that didn't include Myler, Joel Monaghan, Atkins, and Hodgson?

I thought they were bunch of competitive but mismatched put together team with some past it players, who hadn't gelled, and would be unlikely to win honours.

Just shows what adding some quality players with an hunger can do to a side, whilst releasing the past it players. Don't you agree?

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Look back at results when we were on a dominating roll, you will see that landslides against us were not restricted to Friday night.


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TBH I think Leeds's problems are a combination of some players being past their best or not being as motivated as in the past and the coach not being quite there either. It's never 100% the coach or 100% the players at fault.

McDermott might be struggling because he does know many of the players from his period as assistant. Perhaps some players are a bit stale and his appointment didn't freshen things up? I don't know but sometimes a completely different perspective can improve players and make them more motivated e.g Maguire at Wigan and Murray at Leeds. Leeds have had a lot of continuity in the squad over a long period so maybe Hetherington missed a trick in keeping things fresh?

I agree it isn't the same players of 7yrs ago but it's also a better group that what they have produced thus far against Wire twice ,Giants and the HKR and Quinns efforts imo.
I want the 1st hour against the Pies and the performance against Cas and Catalans to be the norm not the one in every 6/7 games then reverting to the 2nd half sh#8e we witnessed on Friday night mate and we are past half way in the season so a good coach should be getting better consistency out of his team.
i accept he's been unlucky with injuries and there is weight to your call for him to have his own players i can see that as a fair point but would you trust him with the re-build given what we;'ve seen thus far? i have my doubts now and it's not just last weeks efforts.