We can go on about subsitutions and who should play and who shouldn't etc. but the biggest problem we have ATM is simply 'ball respect' or lack of it in our case.

I said back when we beat Hull early on in the season that the players should watch the poor first half performance twice and not bother looking at the 2nd half impressive performance as they wouldn't learn anything vital from that. Whilst this attacking style is obviously more entertaining to watch, our insistence to try play it for 80 minutes every match is foolish. Constantly playing like we're two scores down with only several minutes left. Likewise with the HKR game at Headingley and also Wakey last week and Castleford last night, how many times do the opposition start sets well placed in our half or near enough?

People talk about fatigue. Is it because of the turnaround? The use of subs? Resting players? Tell you what doesn't help, defending a set of six and then only getting two carries of the ball and losing in your half and having to defend another set with them already in range. For all talk of subsitutions we finished the 1st half stronger and they looked to be struggling to keep up when we stopped giving the ball away and making them travel 80/90m downfield instead of 40/50m.

Whilst it might not be attractive on the eye, the style of play we produced in the CC final against Castleford is one we still need to use at times as it can be effective and be the right one. We don't even have to use it all game, just certain periods. Start off the game solidly, complete sets, make them consistently start in and around their 20m, target guys in the defensive line to tire out and THEN start throwing it about a bit.

Last year we played too conservatively/timid in attack. This year we've flipped 180 and gone to an extreme of reckless attack. If we can find somewhere in the middle of those two we'd be fine.

Those players to come back will definitely make us a sharper outfit.

Delaney was getting back to his best before his latest injury set back. so him back in the side alongside JJB will add that ton of grit that our pack need. Seeing as those are the 'trusted' players who can offer a full stint.

They came on with 20 left but we still were the side on top for the next 10 when Sinfield hit the penalty on 70mins and looked the more likely to win when it went 24-24 (Infact thought we should gone for the try and not the penalty). Then it was Cuthbertson error, DG, short kick off failed, Handley error, game over.

Errors giving good field position again. Cuthbertson dropping in our half. Short kick off, not really an error but gives them the ball near half way. Handley obviously then messes up for the try. Earlier on in the half their first score coming after a Stevie Ward high shot piggy backs them upfield. Their scores in the first half coming because we couldn't complete sets and them starting well placed.

We make teams start set from deep in their own half and avoid silly penalties then we aren't even in a close game last night in the final 20mins.

We've been worked out, that pack is tired and at the end of it's shelf life. Everyone knows how to beat us. If we had the beef to smash up the middle then that's what we would be doing but we don't (hence the overcomplicated handling in the wrong areas of the pitch), and we don't have the capability to pressure teams with defence often enough. Stevie Ward has been stand out with his enthusuaism, workrate and the power of his defence. We need a couple more like him and someone who can run the ball through a brick wall all game.

The coach has demonstrated his faith in our reserve forwards - he has none. That's why they sit on the bench nearly the whole game.

Most tries come from an error somewhere of some description, either a direct defensive one (Handley jumping in on Shenton for Solomona's first, dropping a simple catch for his second) or a handling error/penalty creating the field position in the first instance.

Arguably Leeds only got back into the game before half time as a result of Cas giving away five consecutive penalties, a poor defensive read by the winger for Hall's try and some soft tackling on Cuthbertson under their own posts.

I just asked you a simple question that you could have answered yes or no, but have dodged.

gotcha, andy gilder, bloodbath and charlie sheen have explained why its a pertinent point

Handley was not "put in a position". A key part of his job is to field kicks which in this case he completely failed to do. He had time and space to catch the ball but nerves, lack of confidence and bad technique meant he spilled the ball. Nothing to do with his teammates, neither was his failure to make a try assist pass for the second time in the last few weeks.

The failure of his team mates, which you once again dodge around, was not putting pressure on the kicker to enable him to put the kick in that position. That was not bad technique at all, it was lack of confidence when you have your opposition winger tearing down on you, but not technique. These things happen, as Andy Gilder clearly posted, not the first, not the last. The kicker however, should not have had so much time.

Think it's a bit of a reach to try shift some of the blame onto teammates for the last try. Handley just misreads it, he drops backs and at the last second takes a few steps forwards and is still left reaching forward to try take it. Don't think he was put off by the Cas winger, he just never got in the right position to take the catch.

It wasn't that good a kick, an unforced error. Solomona was the only one within 10m of him.
Similarly, Solomona made an unopposed error & accidentlally kicked the ball dead from an average kick. I thought it could have been a game defining moment at the time.

Agree with that, our kick pressure has been poor all season. Our kickers are regularly put under more pressure than the oppositions (eg the Bailey late tackle on Burrow that only the ridiculous James Child thought wasn't late). Though I don't think that was really to blame for Handley dropping the ball.

You're also right that Handley's mistake wasn't technique, it was confidence and the confidence to deal with that kind of situation only comes over time.

We also saw the downside of not having Hardaker in my opinion. I think his presence would have given Handley a bit more confidence and Cas wouldn't have got that 40-20 either.

I would have backed Hardaker to bring down Millington for prevent Cas' first try as well.
I disagree with you about Child. I don't think Bailey was late on Burrow, though he didn't have to tackle him to the ground. But that seems to be the fashion since the Aussies started doing it in the WC without punishment. Also I thought Child had a good game, apart from a couple of ball steals he gave to Leeds which, without the benefit of watching the game on TV, seemed to be unforced errors.

I agree that Hardaker would've definately stopped the 40/20 which set up their 2nd try and I would've backed him to stop Millington too (although that's more of 'maybe' than the 40/20). That could've had us at only 0-6 down after that poor opening quarter and a very different game then as we aren't playing such a big catch up then and go in at HT with a lead.

Really need out back 3 all playing. It's one of, if not our biggest asset and advantage over other teams. To have two of the three missing is absolutely huge for us. Before the Wakey game McDermott said everyone apart from Briscoe and Achurch had a chance of playing vs Cas so hopefully with a 10 day gap now Hardaker should make the next game. Last update I heard on Briscoe was 6 weeks away and that was dated 16th May, so you're talking around two weeks away, might have a chance for the cup game if not then the league game the week after. (With Handley struggling and wingers not needed to make a load of tackles and Briscoe being of good age I expect he'll be thrown back in without a game at Hunslet first for fitness).

We did the same all night, while they came in late on more than one occasion. Sinfield was the only player to put any kick pressure on.