Agree with that. We were in the wilderness for a long time from the late 70's ( with a brief 2 year blip) up until 2004. I know we had some decent times during that period, but by and large we got stuffed when it mattered. When Danny took Senior's pass to go over for the winner at Old Trafford it was a moment of deliverance. I hope KR/Wire/Salford/Leigh fans get to have that experience in the coming weeks. I know not everybody has been following the club for the same portion of time, but if you started supporting Leeds from mid noughties on I would humbly submit that your sense of perspective and entitlement is inevitably skewed. I appreciate people have different and very valid reasons for packing it in, but I'll continue to wait for the next moment of deliverance. I don't think it will be 30 odd years this time.

I started watching in 1981, and was at Wigan when we won the JPT in 1984. The next win was the Yorkshire Cup 1988. After that more than a decade to the Challenge Cup 1999. It took 18 years to win a major trophy, so I'm pretty tolerant of barren spells.

But I have more sense now of how to build a decent team, and it really frustrates me to see how badly the team has been run since the end of the Goldens. Watching the team fall apart has been like watching a slow motion car wreck, with warning signs even before 2015.

On the plus side it feels that Blease is laser focused on getting us back to the top, and I'm confident Arthur will leave the club in a better state than when he arrived. The downside is it feels like we're 2-3 years away from really competing and Arthur is unlikely to be here to steer us there. I can live with that but I do understand if some have reached the end of their tether for now. Hopefully green shoots of long term recovery and they'll be back.

Yep. I was there at the JP, last hurrah for the likes of Holmes, Dick and co. I'm probably more optimistic than you, in that I believe we've been fighting with the equivalent of two broken hands (due to our criminal lack of props) for the most part of the decade. I believe Arthur and Blease will sort that this year, and as result the rest of the team will improve exponentially. Not saying we'll be champions but we can stop being also rans in 25. If Salford and Leigh can compete with their lack of infrastructure there is no reason to think that we can't rise again very quickly.

This year has been extremely frustrating, I do believe Blease and Arthur will fix some of the issues in the off season.

Don't know if this is a reflection of the quality of the league but there are 3 games that stick out for me, Huddersfield at home, Hull KR at home and Salford away, I still believe that we 'should' have won those with just a bit more composure. That would have had us finishing 4th, and in fact any other year finishing on 28 points as we have would have got us in the playoffs.

As I say that might be a reflection of the quality of the league.

What I would like to see next season is starting off well, getting some decent wins early on can pay dividends later on in the year, I'm usually one for saying its a long season and your start doesn't reflect your finish, but I'm ditching that philosophy next year, we need to start with some momentum so we aren't chasing points at the back end and it will also get the fans back on board.

I'm still not over Huddersfield at home. From that point on I'd lost faith in Smith. The thumping from an understrength Wire shortly after confirmed it. Agree with your sentiments re KR and Salford, but you also have to factor in our two daylight robberies against London.

Agree with this. The Huddersfield at home game defeat was really inexplicable, we (twice?) built leads that should have been enough to grind out a win.

The London games were poor too, for far too long Leeds seem to more often than not be brought down to the level of the opposition. It seems like an attitudinal thing but for professional sportsmen we let this happen far too often. We've seen it happen under Arthur and Smith, but this lack of ruthlessness during the regular season arguably goes back to Brian Mac's days or even earlier. Is it a culture thing, or just chronic mis-investment in playing staff?

And he came from Widnes!!

We used to delight in the fact that the team peaked for the latter part of the season and didn't always perform during the regular season.
Now that is being described as a problem.

We didn’t perform during the season or peak at the end of the season. That's the problem.

Hmm, a rather strange but intriguing comment. What other motives do you think someone may have when they have posted something relating to their team on that team’s fans forum. If someone posted they were getting a season ticket for the first time in 10 years for X, Y and Z reasons what do you think their ulterior motive might be?

christ mr sack all the junior coaches players and everyone else is being positive again move on with whatever happened to you mate it really is boring been goin on for too long the lad at bottom end has a better win and development record than anyone inside and outside of the club at the level he coaches and he sends anythin from 12 to 14 up to academy a year where its fallen down is within the academy for some reason they cant get players past this next level currnet coach is avin a mare since he come in

walker was good so he rewarded by moving up and rightly so

club should do same with lad at bottom for me maybe he could take more thru to next level said it for years his teams play good footy and parents and players respect im too i see and hear it all the time when im watching our juniors

coaches in development jobs dont stay long term across how many head coaches we had had since mac if they aint good enuf theres loads of good kids just need a firsts coach that has the bottle to play em hopefully its this bloke we have in place now mass sackings is not the answer so take a tablet and calm down fella
sacking kids coaches and blaming them for the demise of the first team over past few years is just red mist

You need to calm down. There was a post not three from the bottom of the thread agreeing with my earlier post to suggest everyone has moved on doesn't stack up.

At under 16 level the club has the pick of all the youngsters in west Yorkshire - they should be good at that point. Given the greater element of their development has occurred at amateur club level how much enhancement is the set up at Leeds giving at that stage?

I fully agree with you that the club struggles to progress players through from that stage to elite level. It could be right at the very start. Because we need to field 17 players at U16 we take on too many kids who will never progress and as such hold back the talented ones.

Part of the shake up could be the progression of certain coaches into different roles - a re-set doesn't mean everyone goes. It means a radical overhaul of what is currently in place. Which even Stevie Wonder can see isn't fit for purpose.

I would suggest the issues are at two ends - scouting and senior management. Are getting the right kids i.e. not just talented players but players who see elite RL as a career. Are we working closely enough with the amateur clubs to identify the correct youngsters. Is the development system and its direction appropriate.

One definition of madness is the repeat the same actions and expecting a different outcome. What is it that Wigan do that we don't?

that is a better more thought out post zoo zoo its more thought out and i agree with a lot of it, that said you have stated on a lot of occasions get rid of them all complete clearout my take as a nutural going to both scholarship and academy games the club dont have best in class, a matty1978 quote in their coaching roles and there is a bloke and i am guessing his staff that need to be allowed to step up, i do not agree with we recruit the best at that level at all we should but we dont far from it but that is another story despite the soundbites we see on the website i do not know about the relatioships with community clubs i know when i coached we had rhinos coaches on the ground supporting i dunt know if it happens now as i have stopped coaching i thought wigan played the same amount of home grown players as we did in the first team last year? so again this fabrication that others are doing better than us is untrue like all clubs there is a lot of good stuff the club does at the bottom end but there is a ton of stuff they need to be better at, and is that all down to the coaches who are part time as you have stated on more than one occasion.

I’m not sure the required quality or number of kids are still coming through particularly in the Leeds area itself. The demographic has changed quickly and dramatically in Leeds over the last 10 to 15 years and I’m not sure it’s been beneficial in keeping the sport relevant in certain areas. I was born in Harehills for example, how many rugby pitches are we likely to see in one of the most densely populated areas in Europe ? Even in the schools you’d probably struggle to find one. The same is probably true of areas like Armley, Burmantofts, Holbeck, Chapeltown and many other districts. Compare and contrast with Wigan and St Helens, there’s probably a rugby pitch in every school and more public ones dotted around the town. The demographic will be more traditional white English with an inherent passion for Rugby League. I think the cultural diversity that could be a massive benefit in Leeds is in fact becoming detrimental to the sport. I think one Mik Oledzki every ten years would be a really poor return for the huge influx of different nationalities in the city of Leeds. Do I see it changing ? Don’t expect to see the first Roma descent Leeds Rhinos player anytime soon.

good post