I agree with you - he did pick Lumb though and the lad got badly injured within 1 game and 5 minutes - injury risk is higher for lads playing open age coming from academy and we've seen that loads. It's a balance between experience and longer-term welfare.

Very occasionally you'll get a Morley or Sam Burgess who comes through and smashes it at 17 but they are definitely the exception.

The injury to Lumb wasn't a collision injury was it? I thought he'd torn a hamstring returning the kick off? That can happen to anyone, I wouldn't say it's due to his "skinnyness" (if that's a word).

On the podcast Chris said the clamour for smiths head is ridiculous because you need a plan and an alternative, that changes mid season rarely work that we've had so many changes of coach that haven't worked out. I don't find that to be an argument to stick with another the onus is on the club to get the appointment of coaches right which they clearly havent. and to be fair supporters arent in a position to name alternatives but it'd be naive to not expect them to voice what we can all clearly see happening in front of us. And let's not just put it all down to mitigating factor s because we weren't playing great with a more fully fit squad. I do think we're still catching up from the training ground flooding though.

Watch it back again mate, it happened in contact running through a couple of defenders and I could see him do it right in front of me live. There was just too much load on the muscle and it went.

I can see what you mean but isn't it way, way more likely we would get the right coach, rather than just a change of coach, if it is planned for and someone lined up at a season end? Who would come across right now?

Personally if we need a manifestly better coach we just have to go with track record, GH's judgement hasn't been great and/or his hand in signings has been poor for a long time.

You're right we weren't playing great with a fit squad, but we did beat Cats, who we have just lost to with 6 first choice players out. People keep telling me there are no mitigating factors and the evidence to me seems the contrary.

Are people really sure with fully fit Croft, Holroyd, Newman we don't win that game at the weekend? I think Cats were there for the taking again.

I don't think RS is anywhere near as bad a coach as many seem to think of on here. I don't think he's perfect either. I'm sure there are better coaches out there. People should understand that no coach is generically "the best" - it takes the right combination or players, coaches, timing etc. Brian Maclennan was great for a year or two but then fell of the cliff. Murray was brilliant again for a year or two, same with Tony Smith. Brian McDermott had the most extended spell but his star fell too (although he seems to be doing well in NRL).

Whether we can get them or would pay for them - not sure. GH struck gold with Brian Mac who didn't have lots of track record with top teams when we brought him in, but he seems obsessed with a cheaper "undiscovered gold" coach rather than appointing on proven track record - and there is less excuse for coaching because no salary cap. Even if we only had a real top coach for a couple of years, it could make a massive difference to the club.

A younger coach with a younger coach equals a longer learning curve but maybe a real embedded group over time. I suspect what this young team needs is an older head who is a good mentor, and then a really good skills-driven set of assistants. The time for hard core skills development is actually in the academy, we should get best possible coaches into them at that age in particular.

Glad to hear people are listening to the pod

I could have said a lot more on the situation but it was actually an add in to discuss and was really planned

What I will say is not everything is so binary, not wanting RS sacked doesn’t automatically mean you think he’s the coach to take us onto a period of success.

And there has been mitigating factors, you can’t just deny them.

The squad an cap was in a right state, it’s ok looking at other coaches coming into other clubs and doing well but as I say it’s not binary there are loads of factors at play that make A. A coach successful B. A team successful and C. Sustaining that success.

I’ll stick to my opinion that sacking Smith now will not be the way to achieve the above.

If smith went thats 4 mid season sackings of coaches in 6 years. It might appease the angry fans but it’s ultimately not achieving what they want.

I’d personally look at a director of Rugby and better support staff for next year.

But as I’ve said before I think Smith may well leave of his own volition at the end of the year anyway.

Who would even come mid-season, and how would our choice be as good as it could be if we did something end of year?

Also agreed with giving Sinfield a decent run, he is potentially a future Leeds 7 for 10 years we may as well start the process if he's up to it. People will have to be patient though, as usual we get this no-win argument of "play the youngsters" at the same time as "no go-forward" and "playing rubbish".

To be fair, even the more militant on here seem to have more patience with young lads than with established pros and that's fair enough.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Frawley gone before the end of the season, I think Smith will go with Sinfield now

I think most can hold mitigating factors alongside measured expectations and even accounting for that Smith has come up a long way short for a sustained period. Like having your first choice hand picked spine available for most games and then still looking like strangers. We can bemoan or rationalise the inability to recruit as needed in the pack but even when we do have Field position and momentum it's been awful end products more often than not. There's been plenty of opportunities for smith to demonstrate that we're going in the right direction despite mitigating factors but the things he can control are full of holes too.

For all the noises made about frawley by himself and the club about his progress since being at the giants he's been a disaster. Foresight seems to have been more with sceptical fans than the club.

Frawley has been s massive letdown, on the flipside he’s been poor do looks like Sinfield may have overtaken him as first choice, which could turn out as a big plus in seasons to come.

I promised myself in the interest of sanity that I wouldn't get involved with foolish short term thinkers who would't know reality if it bit them, however I am biting.
RS is not a god, he is unproven.like everyone else in life he is not perfect,
The fools and idiots who are unrealistically criticising want to recognise there mouth is bigger than there brain, reading this forum it is apparent some are so biased and delusional totally unaware of the lies and disinformation they post,
Without going into detail regarding those "Who Knew" Frawley was going to be a flop,that Holroyd,Fusitua,Newman, MoMo,Bently were going to be injured, How?? Crystal ball. seeing the future tell me how ??
RS cant coach a Miller.Oledski,Croft because we are below mid table + is that proof.
RS cant coach because Lumb, Roberts.Sinfield and Edgell all would have made decent starts for the senior team regardless of who has guided there career for the last Two years !!
Some people want it all one way and can't see anything beyond the last half of a game.
But the main reason some want calling out for wanting RS sacked/moved on is a total Sham------- We havent won anything recently, Someone else would surely do better
THE LAST TIME I LOOKED ONLY TWO COACHES IN SUPERLEAGUE HAD WON ANY THING
Peet who has done well but has had the good fortune to go to one of the leading side is British rugby, Lam who again did well guiding Leigh to a challenge cup success, how ever he was let go as Wigans coach prior.
RS has not set the scene alight, the odds of finding some one who will, are pretty damned slim.
To appease the naysayers, I have just popped down the local supermarket, first had a look for a big enforcer prop, non in stock, tried a strong running tackle busting 2nd rower, "may get some in in November" said the assistant.
Finally looked for a winning coach with all the credentials, tactician.man manager, skillfull cap manipulator and the ability to win the comp year in year out,
We haven't had that product here since 1895 said the manager,
Good luck and good day.

Interesting how self proclaimed pragmatists are the ones calling names like fools and idiots. We knew frawley would be a flop based on previous record , we knew fusitua would be injured for the same reason, Holroyd at 10 was always a huge risk because of his limited games through injuries. Get all ranty and shouty all yi like but that doesn't change what I'll stand by again that even accounting for and mitigation performances haven't demonstrated that Smith is taking the team forward. I think we've been here before, but I've not mentioned winning something but just to see a good standard of rugby played more often would be pleasing.

Just on Frawley, been poor in a side a few years ago isn’t a guarantee they are going to be poor in a different side, unfortunately Frawley is dispelling that theory.

On the insults like above, it needs cutting out from both sides (ive had plenty thrown at me), we are all allowed a different opinion.

Some of these Smith Cultists are stark raving mental. I‘ve never seen people get so carried away with other people’s logical and rational opinions. Maybe it’s time for a trip to the doctors for some of ‘em.