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Quote: tigertot "You could make similar excuses for Wigan. Yet with a worse squad are joint top.'"


Quite right, although I think they have been more fortunate in key positions.

There is a lack of confidence and neither defensive or attacking structures are working. I would say that the person to address these issues is the coach.

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "Your analysis and solution is too simplistic for what is a complex problem. In the absence of real facts about the coaching or off field problems the only real facts that we know of are as follows

You think on such a superficial level and look for the obvious stuff to defend the coach.

Perhaps you might consider the following:

1. The coaching structure itself - the fact McDermott is in sole charge of every aspect of coaching at the club means options and input from others are very limited and the incentive to recruit talent is not there - Turkeys don't vote for Xmas. His self protection has damaged the quality of coaching throughout the club, his assistant is a failed championship coach who will never be threat to him. Performances on the field should reflect in part the coaching input or what is the point of the coach.

2. Recruitment - the quality of recruitment has been very poor, if you don't think McDermott doesn't have an input into recruitment than I would suggest you are wrong. So part of the weakness of the squad is significantly down to him.

3. Youth development - the inability to produce, develop and integrate young players into the team - especially the forwards is a direct result of the coaching structure and quality. Look at Wigan, they are the only club as big as Leeds that are comparable - they seem capable of producing a stream of young players and a structure that easily includes them. So when you have injures and Wigan's have been as critical as those at Leeds their drop in performance is minimal. Players like Singleton are not progressing - they are making the same mistakes week in week out - when does that not become a coaching issue.

4. Team selection - consistently playing players who are so injured that they cannot perform at any reasonable level is a serious miscalculation on his part. Better to have some youngsters gaining experience and players getting fit - it is not as if we are winning these games anyway.

5. Injuries - all teams have injuries - some more serious than Leeds, how many Rhinos players are out for the season? Its a red herring that has had a greater impact than it should have do to other issues that have been self inflicted by the coach

5. Tactics and substitutions - even you cannot deflect this from McDermott and leaving unused substitutions when you "allegedly" have a group of player on their last legs doesn't make any sense.

6. Training facilities - if you as the leader are constantly bleating about this it is no wonder the players and supporters are seeing this as an easy cop out. This is a professional sport, deal with it don't let it impact performance - Carneige are in the same boat I don't hear them moaning anywhere near as much - perhaps their coach is tad more pragmatic?

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Quote: Ronzy "Quite right, although I think they have been more fortunate in key positions.

There is a lack of confidence and neither defensive or attacking structures are working. I would say that the person to address these issues is the coach.'"


Wigan are missing

Tomkins - their star player
Williams - their starting half back
McIlorum - their starting hooker
O'loughlin - their captain/Sinfield

I what way have Wigan been more fortunate than Leeds?

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Quote: Ronzy "Quite right, although I think they have been more fortunate in key positions.

There is a lack of confidence and neither defensive or attacking structures are working. I would say that the person to address these issues is the coach.'"


I mean, I'm no Wigan lover, but they've had S Tomkins (all year), Williams (still), McIlorum (out for the season), and SOL out injured throughout the year so far, hardly great in the key positions. The "injury crisis but not in key positions" is much more applicable on Saints this year

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Quote: Magic Superbeetle "I mean, I'm no Wigan lover, but they've had S Tomkins (all year), Williams (still), McIlorum (out for the season), and SOL out injured throughout the year so far, hardly great in the key positions. The "injury crisis but not in key positions" is much more applicable on Saints this year'"


Ok, quite happy to accept they've had issues and Saints as well. No need for a dong measurement contest.

It only serves to strengthen the argument that, within reason, injury set backs should be surmountable.

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Quote: Ronzy "Ok, quite happy to accept they've had issues and Saints as well. No need for a dong measurement contest.

It only serves to strengthen the argument that, within reason, injury set backs should be surmountable.'"


That is what separates the men from the boys how they cope with adversity

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So no Hardaker, Briscoe, Moon, Hall, McGuire, Cuthbertson, Ablett, Ward, Delaney tomorrow. Cameron Smith or Luke Briscoe to play according to McDermott.

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Quote: ThePrinter "A could of weeks ago Achurch pretty much said the team was working hard but didn't know what was going wrong and it was up to the coaches to solve it. This week the same guy has said that with regards to the attack the penny finally seemed to drop with the team at HT vs Saints. We obviously got our most points in that game so hopefully it's the start of seeing our attack look closer to last years version.'"


has achurch said anything or have the club allowed the yep to put his name to a press release

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Quote: RHINO-MARK "Of the 3 Legends 2 clearly played major influencial roles on/off the pitch by the Coaches own admision something you played down as Mc.D's great man management on that score he's been clearly found out something both he & GH are accountable for.'"


On the contrary. I have always highlighted the importance of Sinfield and JP and their retirement in the same season would have been the same body blow to any coach. Where I challenge you is in your attempt to belittle Mac's coaching achievements by implying these two did all the coaching. It wasn't an admission, as you put it, but a complement to the contribution of those two players in their final season.

Since last season my opinion is on record that the failure to replace Sinny was a serious error. Whilst you didn't seem to spot the danger and you were happy to go with Sutcliffe as KS's replacement ....and we know how that judgement has turned out and something you choose to gloss over in the factors affecting our results this season. How much of is this the responsibility of BM I do not know (and neither do you) but my hunch is that it bears all the finger prints of GH.

Quote: RHINO-MARK "Other clubs is not the only reason i think its time to change its not even the major one but it was brought by you when you said be careful what you wish for it doesnt work yet it clearly does more often than not.'"


True. You have been critical of Mac since his arrival with regularity. Consistency can be a good thing however your history books would say in this case you have been consistently wrong.

Quote: RHINO-MARK "Cas beat us with 10 of their squad unavailable including they're 2 1st choice BR's FB Centre/Captain SO amingst them yet they had a basic gameplan which they executed well.
Again HKR beat us convincingly with half a team Wakey also had plenty of 1st choice players missing.'"


You are ignoring the answer I have given you on this point. Which of these sides (and any others) had lost their two most influential players last year and their training ground in addition to having half the squad out injured? And which of these sides had both their most creative pivots missing for most of the season? You suggest a reason for these defeats was the lack of a game plan. What evidence do you have to back this up? What we all did see was plenty of evidence that we lost because of poor play and errors from our players.


Quote: RHINO-MARK "Ive repeated time & again 5yrs is enough in RL & you also ignore his squad management re-injured players unused subs its poor simple as that & happens too often look at Delaney/Jjb as perfect examples.'"


Because you have repeated this for 5 years does not make it right. All coaches will get it wrong on occasions as they are human beings... I guess you are not perfect in your job either. You may have a problem with unused subs I don't and I am not sure you are qualified to give him lectures on squad management either.


Quote: RHINO-MARK "Whilst there are other reasons for this years below par performances things the Coach does control are still found wanting imo i.e the defence is still pish we are still conceding the same trys game after game he still uses Watkins as basically a BR , even with us down in players he still has unused subs & even when others were available picked Delaney when injured.'"


Mac's record proves he is a good defensive coach and has done it for several years and his game plans have won us silverware. So why would he abandon this aspect of coaching now? and when experienced players make defensive errors why do you blame the coach more than the players? Given that more than half the squad is injured, precisely how would you improve the players form?

With regard to Watkins he has always been suspect defending in the wider channels and is more comfortable defending further inside. It is his defense and the injury list that are probably the only reason he is keeping his place on this seasons form. Against Saints Watkins made 23 tackle and no clean breaks compared with Keinhorst who made 40 tackles 2 clean breaks and 2 tries. He is just anonymous on attack even from the start of a game when he has made few tackles.

Even a one legged Delaney made 27 tackles and only played half a game. Do you know for sure which players were fit enough and good enough to replace Delaney?

Quote: RHINO-MARK "The new era is upon us it was always going to be a big transition & personally id prefer a fresh approach off the pitch as well as on it.
Its not purely just a blame game exercise they're all culpable good bad and indifferent but in Coaching terms time to move in & start afresh.'"


Well you have repeated often enough over considerable time you view that we should change the coach. Whereas Warrington made a different judgement when they lost their two most influential players. They kept the coach and changed the key players and look what happened!

In defending Mac I am not suggesting he doesn't make errors as I think that goes with any job in sport. What I am asking is that you show a bit more loyalty and patience to a coach that has achieved so much for the club. I feel sure we do not know the full story of behind the scenes problems either which could include resentment for new recruits payment packages or new personalities not fitting in etc.

What I do think is becoming clear is that when Sinfield and JP were strutting their stuff certain of our players looked better players than they really are and without the on-field leadership telling them what to do they appear lost.

I for one am prepared to accept a season of transition without trophies to give him time to get the squad balanced again

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your mac's dad and i claim my fiver

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Quote: tigertot "You could make similar excuses for Wigan. Yet with a worse squad are joint top.'"


Did their two most influential players retire last year? Did they have their training ground destroyed pre season? Have they had to play without their main pivots all season? If so then a comparison is valid and you may have a point.

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Having explained it already but you've clearly ignored Sutty imo is good enough to play 6 to replace Sinfield POSITIONALLY but in terms of Leadership & as is blatantly obvious Coaching/in Game management he hasnt been replaced & ive already pointed to GH for that.
Also i havent called for his sacking every year so lay of yer ott man crush defence of him.
My loyalty is to the Club & without question as for Wire so what 11 other Clubs think differrent as do most of the NRL.
In terms of other clubs injuries look at the respective line ups ALL missing key men yet been Coached well enough to adjust & compete most weeks.
Once again you IGNORE the squad management picking Delaney on 1 leg held together by plastercine for 20 minutes does us no favours pick someone fit simple as & when yer pack is knackered rotate all yer subs show me where others have utilised their squads & been a success as you like asking for evidence.
Re-Watkins he's proven more than enough give him the right service & he's the best Centre in the league simple as that. He's defending in the SR to carry Burrow but now they've resoted to using him as a battering ram as well.
In terms of transition i was one of thd few who said it was gonna be huge especially when Sinfield left but many played it down but that does not make the poor performances ok or acceptable when the same mistakes are made week in week out & the Coach still flogs unfit players & doesnt rotare his full bench.
Week 13 we are still seeing the same errors on/off the pitch you may be happy to accept it & not want change good for you but imo it shows the Coach cant get the response he used to nor do i think he has a plan B or C.
The Team need inspiration & off field guidence i dont believe they are getting it & performances back that up.

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "Did their two most influential players retire last year? Did they have their training ground destroyed pre season? Have they had to play without their main pivots all season? If so then a comparison is valid and you may have a point.'"


If these were the only challenges by which you judge adversity you might have a point. Other clubs will have issues that Leeds don't so I would say its swings and roundabouts.

On Wigan losing Williams, Tomkins and McIlorum would qualify as losing their main pivots!!

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I'd go with now

Golding
L.Briscoe
Watkins
Keinhorst
Handley
Sutcliffe
Lilley
Galloway
Burrow
Garbutt
JJB
Ferres
Singleton

Subs
Achurch
Mullally
Walters
Baldwinson

For the cup game Hardaker should definitely be back surly

Hopefully Mcguire and Delaney and Moon and Cuthbertson can't be far off now?

Also Falloon maybe?

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "Did their two most influential players retire last year? Did they have their training ground destroyed pre season? Have they had to play without their main pivots all season? If so then a comparison is valid and you may have a point.'"


Wigan have had to cope with losing their better players for a few seasons. Leeds have access to equal or better facilities. Yes. It is, I do.

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