No I don't necessarily, but then again that is irrelevant, because that was not discussed.

The question was about Bailey's performance last night. His performance offensively was the job that Kirke normally does, and gets moaned about. His performance defensively was not as good as Kirke normally does. Do you not agree with that?

It's been brought into the discussion, whether you like or not.

Sorry for broadening the depths of discussion.

Offensively last night Bailey made 8 carries, Kirke gets moaned about when he produces an unforgivable lack of work-rate, at around 3/4. So you are wrong there.

As for defensively Bailey didn't contribute his usual amount of tackles. But if you look at the two and at what they 'normally produce' I know who I'd rather see being brought into the fray.

Actually you would be wrong there.

How many times has Kirke done 3/4 carries? not many at all, and he is constantly moaned about, and so he should be. He normally does about 8 carries, coincidentally the same as Bailey last night, which is poor. More so in light of Peacock making over 30 carries.

As I said previously, hero worship shouldn't extend to ignorance.

If in doubt repeat yourself. It may bare more meaning second time around.

Both very average squad players both have different strengths and weaknesses. Not sure where The w@nkathon over bailey came from. I always assumed it was a bit of a joke as he coped unfair critisism from away fans but it appears some take it very seriously.
Personally I see kirke as achieving all he could have he was never gonna be a world beater. Came from the lower leagues to a top club. And bailey for me has never realised he full potential. 2004 he looked like he could go onto be a really special player, but never seemed to kick on only in glimpses.

Perfectly summed up IMO

Gotcha, if you're going to talk about what Kirke usually does, doesn't Bloodbath have to look at games other than last night to ascertain what Kirke usually does, given he didn't play last night? Now you may not like the results but you, not Bloodbath took the discussion in that direction.

Also, Kirke often has game where he contributes 4 carries. His last game he made two.

Have you actually thought about what you are saying before posting that? Sounds like massive fog knitting to me.

All I said is that Baileys performance last night was like the role/performance we normally see from Kirke, except Kirke usually does better defence. I even offered a similar game for which I do not know the stats, Saints in the cup, to see how they match up. I said that as both are top teams, playing well, both on the back of two losses, and the game times were about the same.

Are you saying to us here that if Kirke played half a match, did only eight carries, two from drop outs, made only 11 tackles and missed 3 tackles, that you would not comment how poor the contribution was? I certainly would, and have done with Kirke, as I am with Bailey for last night, as I am no hypocrite.

Nice try.

That kind of performance from Kirke would not draw any negative comment from me because 11 carries would be a superhuman effort on Kirke's part and a rarity. That's why you're failing spectacularly in the point you're trying to make.

If you want to dissect Bailey's display by all means but you drew a comparison with Kirke which Bloodbath has shown doesn't bear scrutiny.

Typical cowardly response. What a joke to say you wouldn't complain about it.

At least I can be man enough to give praise and critisism to a player depending on performance. Rather than agenda driven.

Hypocrisy duely noted, but not surprised.

And for the final time I drew a comparison to how Kirke normally plays.

Cowardly? Why the personal attacks? Stick to the rugby discussions. You have a go at Double A One for using emoticons but come out with stuff like this when people pull you on your opinions.

For someone who can't recognise his elbow from his Phil Daly you've done a good job of telling Bloodbath and I how we should think in this thread. I categorically wouldn't complain about Kirke making 11 carries because, as I said, it would be a huge improvement from his norm.

..and then change your mind, after you've read the stats.

I know, then got prissy when Bloodbath gave you an example of how Kirke normally plays, saying you were only talking about last night.

Classic Gotcha insania

Which highlights how pointless your whole argument is, and renders your little girly bitchfest pointless. I hear handbags are on sale in Cas market today.

11 carries isn't a problem, if it was I wouldn't have said Kirke. But 8 carries is nearly 30% less, and what even when Kirke does, one particular gobe on here keeps bagging him for.

Maybe you should pay more attention to what actually happened, and then what is actually said, before putting your foot in mouth.

I wouldn't moan about 8 carries from Kirke. It would be an increase in his usual offensive (in many ways) work rate.

Hope you picked up a nice handbag.

Hope bailey goes if only to end the love in on here. Offers little different to kirke yet kirke is vilified. it's embarassing.

Don't think he's put a shift in for the best part of a decade.

What constitutes a shift then exactly? He's made 30+ tackles in 5 of his 8 appearances this year, hardly sloppy. Vs Widnes he made 37 tackles, 3 tackle bursts and over 100m.

............

Also on another topic it was mentioned on another thread about Ablett being the new JJB in terms of giving away penalties, he's given away just 3 in his last 10 league matches.