You speak for the paying public? Having watched many garbage teams in the 1980s littered with stars and having watched successful teams in the 2000s I know you don't speak for me.

Before my time but do you have any statistics to support those claims and, if you do, do you have any evidence to justify these alleged increased attendances being attributable to Jones rather than any other trends?

[codeWhere would the Premier League be without the biggest stars on the world stage?[/codeIt would be where it would be. Where it is is a league the offers little or nothing to in the way of junior development, nothing whatsoever to the international side and no chance to any club other than three or four to possibly win it. Great example.

Was the Leeds one v Wigan in the cup in 1957? If so, there were more than that on as we broke the gates down to get on and I was also at that and the Wigan v Saints game

Blimey. That's a big picture. Sorry about that.

Showing off about the size of your medal again?

I speak for myself and would certainly not want to speak for you. You do enough of that yourself.

The term 'star player' is now often used for good to average players who do not possess genuine game changing skills. This discussion is about real classy stars with real game changing abilities. These special players have always been a rare breed and it is because of this that they can bring out the crowds. I am suggesting that previous important sources of supply of these rare birds has been cut off in recent years.

Could you name these star signings that you claim littered the teams in the 80's with those same abilities and are you suggesting they did not attract extra attendance? Do you have any statistical evidence to prove real star signings do not have a positive effect on attendances?



Well it was obviously before your time, because had you been there you would have joined with me to testify from personal experience on what the "Jones effect" had on most of the Rugby League grounds he played on, even at places like Tattersfield and not just Leeds supporters. The same can be said of Brian Bevan and other real stars. You must be one of the very few not to accept that LBJ's signing (at great cost) was one of the best investments made by the Leeds club.



You miss the point. Because of the world stars that play in the Premier League it attracts huge TV money and sponsorship and for the teams with the most stars high attendances. If some of this massive income does not filter down to the juniors and grass roots then this is the fault of poor management not the star system. Professional sport is in the entertainments industry and some of the top clubs like Man Utd do produce juniors that make the first team. However the state of the national side is more to do with poor coaching, and a failure to teach basic skills at an early age, than the signing of world stars. Take Spain as another "great example" Their league has for many many years attracted world stars yet with very good caching from the likes of the Barcelona club they ave produced a world champion side with outstanding skills.

The Leeds one was againt Bradford in 1947. Bit before my time.

Star signings that strutted their stuff in the 80s? Well, Meninga, Grothe, Kenny, Sterling etc from Australia, Schofield, Hanley, Offiah etc from GB, plus oodles of union 'stars' from the mid-80s onwards.

IIRC average crowds back then were well below today's levels. If you were to trawl back through the old Rothmans yearbooks I have no doubt you'll find some minor effects when a new player first appeared, but as I said, the effect was generally very short-lived.

The discussion is (or was) about Kyle Eastmond. Which games has he changed? Were they important ones?

I take on board your point about the Lewis Jones effect but I'm not sure it would be as pronounced today under similar circumstances. Koukash's Salford revolution might provide some indication of what might be achievable crowd-wise through the acquisition of a few "star" names.

So for a whole decade not too many real game changers. I cannot think of "oodles of Union stars from the mid-80's onwards" than have been signed for English RL. This source was beginning to dry up for real class by the mid-80's.



It is nothing to do with average crowds. The point is do real classy stars with game changing abilities have a positive effect of attendances. I maintain that they do. In most cases these sort of stars are signed by the best supported clubs which is why they remain the best supported clubs. If these same clubs were to change policy and not sign top stars then it is highly likely that their attendances would drop eg Wakefied Trinity, Widnes & Salford.

Of course it is great if you can produce your own world class stars but even at Leeds where we have enjoyed a unique period of success with a hard core of home produced stars we still needed to make signings like Webb and Lauitiiti and without them would probably not have achieved the same success or the same attendances. eg IMO we would not have won one of our championships without having Buderus in the playoffs.

You must also consider that positive effect I mention can not always be judged by extra average crowds but sometimes is would have prevented lower average crowds.

Would you have prefered Leeds had not signed Webb, Ali, Hanley, Grothe and Schofield etc? and do you believe that they were a waste of money?

Warrington? Since they have come into money they have been able to sign some pretty decent names. Their attendances must be better than they were 10 years ago

I think you should ask the Saints fans regarding Eastmond game winning performances but I gues plenty. He has that very rare ability to make things happen out of nothing.



The players I talk of are rare. But SBW has the ability to make the same impact as LBJ and if we were to sign him then I am sure he would increase the gates at all the gorunds he would play on providing he kept his form. I am sure the NZ attendances in this World Cup have been assisted by SBW being back in League.

Perhaps, or then again perhaps it's down to the move from Wilderspool into their shiny new home?

If you want to analysie Warrington as an example you can take the shiny new home out of the equation by examing what effect Alan Langer had on their crowds.

Big names have to produce trophies to get any lasting benefit crowds wise IMO. The Leeds public were gullible enough to swallow the hype in the late 80s when they made big signings and won nowt but attendances were on average lower than there’s been in recent more successful years with less star studded teams.

I remember Bradford getting a short lived attendance boost when signing Terry Holmes but that didn’t work out too well in the long term. Similarly Widnes got a short term boost when they signed Jonathan Davies but nearly went bust within a few years and had to sell him to their bitterest rivals.

Nowadays folk are even more fickle so signing a big name isn’t going to have a major lasting effect on attendances unless it’s combined with great marketing and a winning team lifting silverware. It’s not the era of Lewis Jones anymore, the world has moved on.

Phew! Had me worried there Bullseye. When I saw your name I thought you'd remembered more horror signings with which to torment us

But I agree with your point; after all, a crowd of over 30k was drawn to the Welsh borders to view a dead donkey back in the 50s. I doubt we'd pull that many now were we to sign its modern day equivalent, Lee Mossop.