Spot on. Amazing how any one willing to give an opinion is roundly abused, yet the ones doing the abusing come up with nothing until after the event.

So going by the season so far you think some fans are wrong to be suggesting we could do with "freshening up"?
Fwiw i too thought it was the strongest squad we'd had for a while especially depth wise but did'nt expect that to be tested from week 1 and to be losing 2 or 3 players a week.
Plenty of things to be considered when assessing our season thus far and i'm sure we all have differing opinions on the whys and wherefores but that does'nt make any one fan right or wrong imo.
I think personally that the older players like Senior ,Kylie and JP have played too much because of the injuries preventing them getting rotated and we've also relied too much on squad players like Kirke.
I hope we'll ad at least 1 Prop/forward of some description just to share the work-load and allow us to rest players like JP.
If Ali retires it'll be a shame because i personally was glad we'd retained him then we'll need to add another one imo and also give Pitts more gametime.

My own thoughts on the season so far are that we have done well under adverse circumstances to get to where we are.
The start of the season for any team winning Super League is very stressful trying to peak for a game against a team likely to be superior, in the WCC. To have had this burden for three successive years must then start to take its toll on having a proper off season break and starting the new season with just one objective. The workload for this plus having to suffer a quagmire of a pitch for about the first 4 home games will inevitably tell on the players and must have contributed to some extent on the number of injuries we had early doors.
My view is that it would be beneficial not to have the WCC to worry about next year - let Saints have that burden. I also think that, although it makes no logistical sense, there may be some advantage to the players if we could have some pitch improvements brought forward in the grand Headingley Devlopment Plan.

Do you have a link to any of this abuse?

My position was made very clear when these "Greatest/strongest ever squad" threads appeared. It was a ridiculous discussion to even have. Titles should be bestowed upon players/squads when they've been earned on the field of play, not in the minds of statisticians and list makers before the season begins.

Not an unreasonable position nor is it abuse of anyone who wishes to bestow such accolades pre-season, would you not agree?

Fair point mate but from my own p.o.v it was'nt a "title bestowed on them" just posting an opinion that i thought we'd assembled our strongest squad in a long time and did'nt mention anything about greatness etc etc.

Where it is the same fans that said this was the "greatest/strongest ever squad" then yes, I think they're wrong.

Where it is fans that have not said this previously and are saying it as a knee jerk reaction to the cup final defeat then, yes, I think they're wrong.

Would those same fans be saying the same thing had Saturday's result been in our favour? I doubt it.

And it illustrates their lack of knowledge about Rugby League and sport in general. It's all on the day, something TVOC has said many a time. Another day, the same opponents and it might be us that conquer. Would Saints fans have dismantled their squad after 2007 when we beat them comprehensively in the GF? A squad that went on to play in the next 2 GFs, win a CC final and a league leaders shield.

I'll give Gotcha credit. he's maintained all along the squad would need shaking up next year and he's not saying it as a reaction to Saturday. I may not agree with him but he's not saying it purely as a reaction to Saturday.

Let me illustrate further consistency of beliefs that are not reactionary. Who has maintained that Kirkes aggression in the collision was inadequate all year long? Me. Was this illustrated on Saturday? Yes. I was asked why I didn't start a thread slating other player's performances. Because it wasn't needed. Bailey's display, as an example, was an aberration of his season long form. Kirkes was an example of his.

All good and valid points.
I've also said all year that next year will be one too far for Senior and maintain that opinion and his usual standard of performance is dwindling imo but i still think we started this year with the strongest squad we've had for a while.
What i will also add is that no-one has the ability to see "into the future" but all we can react to is what we are seeing at that moment in time and i think with Eastwood and Donald going and the fact that players like Kylie,JP and Senior will be a year older the squad will need adding to.
Now don't get me wrong i'm not saying sack 6/7 and bring 6/7 in but i think it'd be good for fresh faces to be added and hopefully Brian mcdermott will add some freshness to things.
The Cup final has stunned many of us and alot of the reaction imo has been emotional as well as angry but come on mate even you must of been shocked by that performance and can see something needs adding.

I was shocked by our performance. I was not shocked by our defeat nor was I shocked by Warrington's performance.

There was one fresh face that could have been added Saturday that would have made a huge difference. He was sat in the stands guiding Warrington and he was abused (on here) and wanted rid of (on here) by many of the self same posters now crying out for further change.

What shocked me most on Saturday was how little I actually cared at the end. Did I want us to win? Yes, desperately. However, the moment the game was over my shoulders were shrugged and it was off to the pub.

There's no guarantee it would of been different with TS in charge he said himself he was ready for a change when he left and Bluey has hardly been a failure mate tbf.

And IMO there wouldn't have been. As I have said previously, the coach can only go so far with the resources at his disposal.

But I like this debate, at least it is more open minded.

An indication perhaps that you - like the players - have become jaded and no longer have the voracious appetite for success ??

Bring in the new

Sod the new, bring back Dougie Laughton, it was far more entertaining then.

Another way of looking at things would be to say that we have reached the CC final for the first time in 5 years and actually managed to beat Saints in the cup for the first time in 7 years. Also, if you accept that the WCC was a major distraction at the start of the season (you would think it wouldn't be by now, but maybe the loss to Manly was put too much emphasis on this game) and that we had substantial injury problems in that period also, we have actually performed as well as anyone, points wise, since around the beginning of April (I use this date as it's the week after we went to Wigan with barely a team and came back to draw with the Bulls the game after which for me was a turning point). Leeds SL record (P18 W13, D1 , L4) over that period is comparable to Wigan's (P18, W14, D0, L4).

The difference this year has been the nature of our defeats and the way we have scraped home for our wins - our points difference clearly highlights that we haven't been comfortably won many games. We have also been beaten convincingly by teams that you simply wouldn't expect to beat us convincingly based on last years form.

Why is this? Why did we start so badly and why have we failed in the biggest game of the year so far?
My thoughts are that the team are mentally knackered. They need a breather, they need the pressure off for a while and they need to get the hunger back. The hunger that drives your legs to make that extra yard and that extra effort whether you play against either London or Saints. There are some tired bodies, but there are some equally tired minds out there in Leeds colours. I think the last three years Smith and Bluey have used the way Saints have been held above Leeds as a drive to motivate the guys. This year that was missing. That edge has gone and I think the guys are struggling to really get up for games in the right way.

All is still not done with this season, but on the plus side Saints look beatable, especially if they have no half backs. Yet they have their record against Warrington and a Warrington who will be drained themselves after Saturday. Wigan look like the major obstacle, but the pressure could get to them as well.

First 17 for 2011

Seriously we need to give the newer blood every chance to succeed next year whilst we still have these experienced hands around as support/back up.