are you really that thick or are you just pretending?
after all of the reasoned debate posted prior to your arrival on the scene you then posted this




no 5hit sherlock!
we all couldn't agree with you more and wigan are without a doubt the best side in sl by a country mile at present,but sadly for that present accolade you don't pick up any trophies for being so dominant.

but then again being a giants fan i suppose you have grasped that concept by now

If you could be as specific as to peak for 80mins out of a whole year you would probably earn millions. But it doesnt quite work like that does it. Not being at the peak during the challenge cup final doesnt mean it is a warm up.

Sorry, just being facetious.

My point is that of course Leeds were trying their damndest in the Challenge Cup Final. I'm not too up on the latest Sports Science but training to peak at the end of the season to win the GF doesn't seem that difficult to work out. Surely every team tries to do that. I would argue that there are other factors that come into play here. And luck is one of them.

I just want one Leeds fan to admit that luck played a part as well as the play off system in your success of the past two seasons.

Luck tends to even out over the course of a league campaign but can have too big an effect in a cup competition. (Look at Wigan Athletic for heavens sake!!!)

Winning once from 5th may have an element of luck in it but to do it twice dispels that theory. 6 from 9 reinforces the premiss that luck has nothing to do with it at all.

It's like saying "Wigans 80's/90's winning steak sure was lucky wasn't it?"

I'm not saying that it is ALL luck am I?

There are elements of luck in ALL cup competitions. You don't play everyone home and away for a start. The competition involves only 4 games to win it.

Winning twice from 5th doesn't dispel any theory. Haven't you thought that coming 5th had advantages over coming 3rd or 4th? You had a nice easy game against the 8th team last year actually Wakey came 9th. Then you play the team that just got battered the previous week so is low on confidence.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you were lucky to win it, but you have to agree that there was an ELEMENT of luck in your campaign.

Rugby League in the 80s/90s was different in that really only Widnes were a comparable team to Wigan who generally didn't need much luck, whereas there are about half a dozen decent teams now.

Theories abound, but I don't for a moment believe that it's a question of not trying in the Cup Final or indeed the weekly rounds. I think it's a question of how close to your peak preparation you are.

For instance, if you're trying to peak in September, it is entirely plausible (in my eyes) that you might be over-trained in August. It won't be huge differences, but small things make a big difference in professional sport.

You allude to the formula being easy. Yet other teams can't seem to pull it off, and even Shaun Wane admitted to having it wrong last year.

If you can point to significant, unmatched and decisive good fortune in either the '11 or '12 Grand Final wins go ahead. But we looked a different side in the last two matches of each season, and both years we produced our best performances at Old Trafford. I can't see that being coincidence.

As I say, theories abound. Two years isn't a lot of data to go on and there might be other explanations. I haven't seen another that compels me.

Coming 5th has many advantages, to the point that some posters one here believe that the 5th spot was targeted and achieved deliberately - no luck involved at all.

A theory, incidentally, which I still personally believe to be (in the words of Professor Yaffle) fiddlesticks and flapdoodle.

Leeds deliberate capitulation away at Catalan Dragons in Round 25 last season prior to staging a "score-at-will" late rally would suggest otherwise. It pretty much ensured that Catalan finished 4th and Leeds finished 5th.

Feel free to investigate whether lightning never ever strikes twice though.

Only one of the last five NRL Champions were minor premiers. Do you think Australian fans care about that?

If they care about the game then they should, if you only care about your team winning then no I don't suppose they would.

More than twice for some TV masts.

Since they've never yet crowned any team NRL champions from outside the Top 4 whilst utilising the Top 8 play-off system, then I doubt they would care as much.

14 seasons of Top 8 play offs down under
1st has been crowned champions 4 times, runners up 6 times.
2nd has been crowned champions 4 times, runners up 3 times.
3rd has been crowned champions 3 times.
4th has been crowned champions 3 times.
5th has been runners up 1 time.
6th has been runners up 3 times.
7th has been nowhere.
8th has been runners up 1 time.

Given the level of competition and intensity in the NRL, I'm not convinced it's possible for any NRL team to spend their entire regular season tossing it off, safe in the knowledge they are guaranteed to qualify for the play-offs.

The issue isn't about winning from 5th or 1st - its about what makes a team the Champions from that year - and the answer is winning the Grand Final.

Arguing that another team was the 'best' despite NOT winning the GF is playground stuff. Sts 2005-07 were the 'best' side ever in SL according to quite a few. Oddly enough the records show they were the best for one year only. Those same records clearly show that Leeds were the 'best' team for most of the nine years 2004-2012.

Mid-season form has been shown to be an unreliable predictor of the eventual Champions. All that matters now is whether Leeds extend the above record to 2013 and beyond. Maybe Wigan will take up the mantle as best team from this year onwards. The only measure that matters is whether they win the GF.

... a champion team who failed to win the CC.

Not that there's anything wrong with losing 6 successive CC Finals.

All in the interests swings, slides, roundabouts and playground balance of course


Regards,
Patrick Ronald Ising (not from Brisbane this time).