FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Some thoughts on yesterday and the season to date |
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| Quote: Dave Heron's Moustache "Just to point out the small logic slip amidst all that pontificating there - Bluey is from where?
So why do we need to sack three guys who are obviously doing the job their employers want just employ a f******g Australian of some description.'"
And has Bluey coached in the NRL?
Has he coached a club side at the highest level on a weely basis (I aren't talking Bartercard here!!).
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| Quote: The Magic Wand "And has Bluey coached in the NRL?
Has he coached a club side at the highest level on a weely basis (I aren't talking Bartercard here!!).'"
I'm sure when he was in charge of New Zealand they let him look at the mystical magic book of Australian and Kiwi training methods. Maybe they didn't? Maybe it's something that they only show to reserve grade junior coaches in the NRL, of the like that we should be recruiting?
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| Quote: Dave Heron's Moustache "I'm sure when he was in charge of New Zealand they let him look at the mystical magic book of Australian and Kiwi training methods. Maybe they didn't? Maybe it's something that they only show to reserve grade junior coaches in the NRL, of the like that we should be recruiting?
Thanks for not answering the question, so I will answer it for you, no he hasn't coached in the NRL and no he hasn't coached a top side on a day to day basic unless of course you count the Rhinos.
And there lies the problem, coaching New Zealand over a short period of time means training methods are very much designed to deliver fast win objectives, its also a lot about bringing a group of players together and getting them to bond quickly which I think you will find is where our illustriuos coach comes into his won.
However and this is the big one, arm round shoulder coaching works short term (ala Tri-Nations), long term its been proven time and time again that it fails, and it will fail with Leeds.
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| Quote: The Magic Wand "Thanks for not answering the question, so I will answer it for you, no he hasn't coached in the NRL and no he hasn't coached a top side on a day to day basic unless of course you count the Rhinos.
And there lies the problem, coaching New Zealand over a short period of time means training methods are very much designed to deliver fast win objectives, its also a lot about bringing a group of players together and getting them to bond quickly which I think you will find is where our illustriuos coach comes into his won.
However and this is the big one, arm round shoulder coaching works short term (ala Tri-Nations), long term its been proven time and time again that it fails, and it will fail with Leeds.'"
Ah now. Here we see you not reading the thread before you type a load of cack ("I aren't talking Bartercard here" priceless.. ).
Go and read what your idiot twin brother Eccleshill was talking about. Christ you two didn't fall far from the numpty tree did you?
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| Quote: Dave Heron's Moustache "Ah now. Here we see you not reading the thread before you type a load of cack ("I aren't talking Bartercard here" priceless..
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| I just feel we have a major crisis of confidence - it will soon pass and normal service will be resumed. Good players, don't become bad players over 8/9 games and i think that Brian Mc is right when he says that good can come out of a slump.
Huddersfield could quite easily get a hammering this weekend (although it might take a bit longer).
I do however feel that we need a quality centre (a bit like when we signed Ellis). I really think that Shenton of Cas is worth a punt. Not the finished article but could be very special with better players around him. Cash plus Ashley Gibson would be my opening gambit.
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| Quote: The Magic Wand "Good, like your answer, I will take it that you have no idea what the hell you are on about.
You can take it sideways from a horny donkey if you want pal.
And I aren't talking Bartercard here...
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| Re Smith vs McClennan, from what I recall on these boards there was a tendency to lambast Smith at every opportunity despite him winning the Championship for the first time in 30 years. Bluey seems to have had an almost criticism free ride to date, and it all seems to be down to whether people (and the players) 'like' him. I suspect that few if any Man Utd players 'like' Ferguson much - he's a dour, grumpy Scottish git. I couldn't care less if the players burn effigies of the coach so long as it works. So far Bluey has done very well IMO.
Regarding the squad, it seems like we have been vaguely successful over the last 5 or so years with a side based largely around locals, with the odd signing here or there and new juniors coming through to at least compete for spots in the team. I'm not quite sure why signings would make much of a positive difference at this stage, as the only reason to sign anyone IMO is to strengthen a clearly weak position (where there are no likely junior prospects).
TBH if anything that's why I wasn't sure of Buderus - not the money but with a GB and 3-time GF winning hooker plus the highly rated McShane, I would have thought that other positions were more of an issue - particularly second row.
The only 'flaw' in this model is that it absolutely will not guarantee success year after year. Funily enough that's possibly true of every other team's 'strategy'....
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| Quote: Dave Heron's Moustache "Just to point out the small logic slip amidst all that pontificating there - Bluey is from where?
So why do we need to sack three guys who are obviously doing the job their employers want just employ a f******g Australian of some description.'"
Just to back David up here, with facts.
Are they doing their job? I think it could be argued that Poaching for instance is actually far far from doing his job.
I know there are people on here who do not attach too much to results from the academy, but that reserve set up appears to have gone really backwards since he took the job.
Or is it just coincidence?
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| Quote: BrisbaneRhino "Re Smith vs McClennan, from what I recall on these boards there was a tendency to lambast Smith at every opportunity despite him winning the Championship for the first time in 30 years. Bluey seems to have had an almost criticism free ride to date, and it all seems to be down to whether people (and the players) 'like' him. I suspect that few if any Man Utd players 'like' Ferguson much - he's a dour, grumpy Scottish git. I couldn't care less if the players burn effigies of the coach so long as it works. So far Bluey has done very well IMO.'"
And there in lies a problem.
This sort of remark, same as from Gareth, and whoever, is complete and utter b0ll0cks.
Smith never got critisized in his first year, why should he have done.
Bluey was given the same leeway, despite efforts of some to change the view.
Smith did not get the critisism until end of 2005, when coincidentally success did not happen, and appeared to be blown by elementary errors.
Now Bluey is getting some critisism. Which coincidentally is happening as results have started to slip and performances poor.
On both occassions both coaches deserved the critisism. We pay good money, and expect to see quality performed in front of us. If its not then we as paying customers reserve the right to complain. If people dont like the critisism then bog off and jog along to another board.
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| Quote: DISA "If its not then we as paying customers reserve the right to complain. If people dont like the critisism then bog off and jog along to another board.'"
Or maybe those who cant take a few defeats should bog off and support another team?
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| Quote: DISA "Just to back David up here, with facts.
Are they doing their job? I think it could be argued that Poaching for instance is actually far far from doing his job.
I know there are people on here who do not attach too much to results from the academy, but that reserve set up appears to have gone really backwards since he took the job.
Or is it just coincidence?'"
He has suggested that Poching, Cummins and McDermott only have their jobs because GH is being loyal to guys who were loyal to him - I have a problem with that.
But the real problem with his argument is that he defeats it himself all in the same post. He claims British coaches lack the capability to prepare players physically, he then uses the fact that Australian and Kiwi (note the and "Kiwi" bit here) coaches have won SL more times than British coaches and that we have been shown to be physically weaker and less fit at international level than the Australians and Kiwis.
He used this argument to back up his suggestion that we hire an Australian junior coach in the backroom staff.
So lets pull this apart:
1. the Kiwi GF winning coach he uses to support his argument is Bluey and he's already at Leeds... doh!
2. If the likes of John Monie, Brian Smith, Daniel Anderson, Graham Murray etc. etc... etc... can't lift British players to the same fitness levels as our Australian counterparts - what use is a no-name Aussie in the backroom staff at the expense of guys who have two years running managed to peak the team excatly at the right moment to go out and crush physically St Helens?
Can anyone deny that conditioning (physical and mental) was absolutely spot on for two consecutive GF's? Did we not look (despite playing the extra game) far fitter mentally and physically?
Ignore Magic Wind's contribution, he didn't read anything and didn't understand what the grown up's were talking about.
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| Quote: King Monkey "Or maybe those who cant take a few defeats should bog off and support another team?'"
Even though they are ones talking the sense?
Defeats is irrelevant. And yes, I accept that some are posting purely because of that.
But performances is more important, and ignoring that is just ridiculous.
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| Quote: Dave Heron's Moustache "He has suggested that Poching, Cummins and McDermott only have their jobs because GH is being loyal to guys who were loyal to him - I have a problem with that.
But the real problem with his argument is that he defeats it himself all in the same post. He claims British coaches lack the capability to prepare players physically, he then uses the fact that Australian and Kiwi (note the and "Kiwi" bit here) coaches have won SL more times than British coaches and that we have been shown to be physically weaker and less fit at international level than the Australians and Kiwis.
He used this argument to back up his suggestion that we hire an Australian junior coach in the backroom staff.
So lets pull this apart
Let's take your arguement on little - whenever an Aussie side has taken the WCC seriously and fielded a reasonable side they have beaten the SL comprehensively - anyone who watched this years WCC cannot deny the huge differentials in skill levels - Manley were in a different world to Leeds and they have struggled to win a game in their own league - doubt that Manley have many British coaches in their rosta.
Leeds is McClennan's first full time first grade job - he was not brought up in the NRL - yes he won the 2005 tri nations but with a squad that had been brought up - in the main - in the NRL and had the physicality and techniques ingrained in that league.
The coaching and conditioning techniques in the NRL are worlds apart from those in the UK - it is one of the major reasons we cannot compete at international level - as we move one step forward they move two - do you think Ellis would be a better and fitter player at Wests or if he had stayed at Leeds under the likes of Cummins or Poching?
Leeds conditioning in this league is OK mainly because of the numbers of poor sides physically as Manley showed they were unable to cope with a fit NRL side that is the difference - anyone who don't think that employing some training techniques used in the NRL would not benefit the players at Leeds is simply deluded. As is anyone who thinks Cummins and Poching can do a better job than Steven Kearney.
As has been said here standstill and you will get passed.
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