So let me get this correct. The talk was of last nights game, you realise that actually what has being said is correct, so instead you now mention the season as a whole so far?

What were Kirkes stats against Saints anyone have them? that would be a reasonable comparison. I see Kirkes game stats for Bulls, Wakey, etc, they would match up to Bailey last night but with better defence, but that would be an unfair comparison as not top sides.

Nobody mentioned any comparisons on the season, it is quite clearly about last night. Previous games for Bailey there is no comparison for me, but last night was quite clear, Bailey was a poor imitation and the worst prop on the field for both sides.

Hero worship shouldn't really extend to ignorance.

You compared Bailey's contribution to Kirke's contribution. But Kirke wasn't playing against Castleford. So overall contributions is where debate has gone. Whether you like it or not.

Don't presume my thoughts.

Actually what I said was that Bailey's performance last night was the same job as Kirke normally does. However, he couldn't match up to Kirkes tackling.

You were the one who brought out stats showing 8 drives, but missed off the tackles. I just said that is like for like what Kirke does.

Just a quick note, Robbie Ward along with Elliot Minchella, Ash Handley and George Milton are all in England Academy's 20 man squad for a game against France which take place next Friday just before Magic weekend so he won't be making the Leeds squad for next weekend.

Bails tackling numbers were down on his average / usual defensive work against Cas. Do you think Kirke is a better defender?

No I don't necessarily, but then again that is irrelevant, because that was not discussed.

The question was about Bailey's performance last night. His performance offensively was the job that Kirke normally does, and gets moaned about. His performance defensively was not as good as Kirke normally does. Do you not agree with that?

It's been brought into the discussion, whether you like or not.

Sorry for broadening the depths of discussion.

Offensively last night Bailey made 8 carries, Kirke gets moaned about when he produces an unforgivable lack of work-rate, at around 3/4. So you are wrong there.

As for defensively Bailey didn't contribute his usual amount of tackles. But if you look at the two and at what they 'normally produce' I know who I'd rather see being brought into the fray.

Actually you would be wrong there.

How many times has Kirke done 3/4 carries? not many at all, and he is constantly moaned about, and so he should be. He normally does about 8 carries, coincidentally the same as Bailey last night, which is poor. More so in light of Peacock making over 30 carries.

As I said previously, hero worship shouldn't extend to ignorance.

If in doubt repeat yourself. It may bare more meaning second time around.

Both very average squad players both have different strengths and weaknesses. Not sure where The w@nkathon over bailey came from. I always assumed it was a bit of a joke as he coped unfair critisism from away fans but it appears some take it very seriously.
Personally I see kirke as achieving all he could have he was never gonna be a world beater. Came from the lower leagues to a top club. And bailey for me has never realised he full potential. 2004 he looked like he could go onto be a really special player, but never seemed to kick on only in glimpses.

Perfectly summed up IMO

Gotcha, if you're going to talk about what Kirke usually does, doesn't Bloodbath have to look at games other than last night to ascertain what Kirke usually does, given he didn't play last night? Now you may not like the results but you, not Bloodbath took the discussion in that direction.

Also, Kirke often has game where he contributes 4 carries. His last game he made two.

Have you actually thought about what you are saying before posting that? Sounds like massive fog knitting to me.

All I said is that Baileys performance last night was like the role/performance we normally see from Kirke, except Kirke usually does better defence. I even offered a similar game for which I do not know the stats, Saints in the cup, to see how they match up. I said that as both are top teams, playing well, both on the back of two losses, and the game times were about the same.

Are you saying to us here that if Kirke played half a match, did only eight carries, two from drop outs, made only 11 tackles and missed 3 tackles, that you would not comment how poor the contribution was? I certainly would, and have done with Kirke, as I am with Bailey for last night, as I am no hypocrite.

Nice try.

That kind of performance from Kirke would not draw any negative comment from me because 11 carries would be a superhuman effort on Kirke's part and a rarity. That's why you're failing spectacularly in the point you're trying to make.

If you want to dissect Bailey's display by all means but you drew a comparison with Kirke which Bloodbath has shown doesn't bear scrutiny.

Typical cowardly response. What a joke to say you wouldn't complain about it.

At least I can be man enough to give praise and critisism to a player depending on performance. Rather than agenda driven.

Hypocrisy duely noted, but not surprised.

And for the final time I drew a comparison to how Kirke normally plays.