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Quote: ThePrinter "In Dream Team points, Kallum Watkins has apparently been the 2nd best centre this year behind Cudjoe. And whilst I know Sandow has missed the last two, he scored 9 tries and assisted 15 yet he's only scored 465 points to Sutcliffe's 464 who has 3 tries and 3 assists.......try wrap your heads around those.'"


Haha. That doesn't suprise me at all. That site is an absolute farce. It's a pathetic excuse of a dream team.

Would we expect anything else from the RFL?

It is them who run it isn't it? Anyway let's just blame them.

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Quote: ThePrinter "In Dream Team points, Kallum Watkins has apparently been the 2nd best centre this year behind Cudjoe. And whilst I know Sandow has missed the last two, he scored 9 tries and assisted 15 yet he's only scored 465 points to Sutcliffe's 464 who has 3 tries and 3 assists.......try wrap your heads around those.'"


Hep Cahill's stats are also pretty good and he was flying in the dream team... but JJB who's played about 5 games is statistically best?

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Quote: Frosties. "Show it means nothing that really, because you'd have hanbury in front of hardaker, sandow in front of Brough, Houghton in front of Roby, Evans before Cudjoe, Thompson before Manfredi.'"


There's no context to the dream team numbers. Backs make more metres than forwards. Field position is at the core of the game, and is 75% forward based. Your backs aren't making any metres without it.

For reasons best known to themselves they won't give us proper stats. Where things happen and when is the only way to make a judgement.

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This is why it's best to watch the players play rugby to judge who is playing better, rather than reading spreadsheets.

That said, JJB has been a demon since his return. His work rate and energy have been phenomenal.

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I'll take better quality stats over watching Leeds any day of the week. Fridays and Sundays in particular though.

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Quote: G1 "This is why it's best to watch the players play rugby to judge who is playing better, rather than reading spreadsheets.

That said, JJB has been a demon since his return. His work rate and energy have been phenomenal.'"


if only he could run further than 20 yards

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Quote: G1 "This is why it's best to watch the players play rugby to judge who is playing better, rather than reading spreadsheets.'"


Stop doing this. How many times. eusa_shifty.gif

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This has comfortably been Hardakers worst season so far, dont know whether that shows the poor standard of SL fullbacks or how pointless the opta stats are...

Although I would agree with most of the forwards
If JJB is in there I assume it is done by averages

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Quote: vbfg "There's no context to the dream team numbers. Backs make more metres than forwards. Field position is at the core of the game, and is 75% forward based. Your backs aren't making any metres without it.

For reasons best known to themselves they won't give us proper stats. Where things happen and when is the only way to make a judgement.'"


There's no mystery on this issue. The Opta people are in business to make money. "Proper stats" have value. If the great unwashed are entitled to freebies then you can bet they'll be valueless.

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Huh. Thanks for the insight. Today I learned. icon_wink.gif

All it takes is the right sponsor.

I can get every play in the NFL. Since game one, way back when. I can do thirty years of college football. Baseball has been an ever increasing cascade of statistics. There are decades of the NBA available. Soccer, the most state-less data free game there is, is dripping in them - every shot, and every location where it happened, etc. I can get all of this right now, legally, for free. It's not to the same quality every time, and sometimes the categories change over time. There are tons of it out there though.

But not RL. Because stats gathering organisations make money from rugby league.

They somehow fail to do that with the biggest sports in the world.

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[i"The people at Opta watch every match and record every action, good and bad. They award points to each player for the positive things he does and take then off him for any obvious mistakes or errors.

They then add a weighing to this dependent on the time in the game, the position on the pitch and the score at the time. Scoring a 50-metre try under the post in the 50th minute when your team are already 50 points in front does not earn you as many points as it would if you were five points behind with 50 seconds remaining".[/i

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Quote: HRS Rhino "Nice to see Cuthbertson and JJB in there, but not sure what the other fullbacks in SL are doing...'"


This is why stats are not entirely to be trusted. Think they're not bad markers in forward play. But for backs it tells little

Eg. Shaul v hardaker

Shaul has 7 more tries
More metres
Double metres per carry nearly
Less errors
Less pens
Less missed tackles
More try assists
Double clean breaks

Hardaker has built up stats for making more carries few more offloads n more tackles
Not really effective or massively useful stats for a fullback. But opta scoring

The most ridiculous selection is Mellor over sandow. Sandow has a hand both in scoring and assists in 23 tries. Nearest is 16.

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What about utility players- players like sutcliffe, burrow, Hinchcliffe, who play in more than one position-sometimes in the same game? If hardaker plays on the wing and earns "winger" points are they just added to his o stall points?
Michael Lawrence has played centre and then in the second row for the early part of the season. Played the last 3 games at loose forward and put in over 150 tackles in those three games alone!

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Quote: vbfg "Huh. Thanks for the insight. Today I learned.
Well, we could have a little side bet on the question of whether the statistics CLUBS (in any sport) have access to are the very same (and therefore of equal value) as those widely disseminated among fans via TV - but I think we both know how that would end up. icon_wink.gif

If you didn't know this already you should have. And if you did why make it sound like there's anything unusual about information finding its true market value? Either way getting all snotty about it isn't an edifying spectacle ... icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Mugwump "Well, we could have a little side bet on the question of whether the statistics CLUBS (in any sport) have access to are the very same (and therefore of equal value) as those widely disseminated among fans via TV - but I think we both know how that would end up.
I'm not asking for the complete set. Clearly a non-starter. I want relevant data that helps support the ongoing narrative. That's all.

And nobody is copying their data sets from TV, mate.

Quote: Mugwump "If you didn't know this already you should have. And if you did why make it sound like there's anything unusual about information finding its true market value? Either way getting all snotty about it isn't an edifying spectacle ...
Neither is patronisingly lecturing people on the staggeringly obvious. Not that I expect you to stop. icon_wink.gif

"I bring word of the commonwealth. And market forces".

LOL, etc.

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