Hasn't Gotcha clarified his earlier statements when he said on page 5

The language may have been inprecise but the basic point appeared to be an apparent intention to develope Pitts in to the prop position as outlined by the then head coach which has for whatever reason not exactly born much fruit.

If you care to answer the questions Gotcha posed in that post above you'll see that on the face of it he may have a point.

I entirely agree that the general promise statement was and remains unsubstantiated but as it's effectively been withdrawn we should be able to move on.

You asked for evidence of 'a prop comment' (I suspect that was because you couldn't recall one and hoped it hadn't actually happened) but Gotcha was right in that it had. No-one's still banging on about it now - excluding this part of the post.

This is like Haye v Chisora, only with longer words and less spit.

And one less tripod.

TVOC just tell G1 he's right...it's obviously important to him. We can all draw our own conclusions as to who is worth respecting

prop or second row, the lads simply not good enough

You weren't looking for evidence of a prop comment when you said this

Add that to when you asked



Again that question infers no comment was made with regards to converting the then young Wakefield back-row prospect into a front-row forward.

Evidence was provided of the intention/observation via the YEP article I provided in full - not wishing to prejudice either argument.

__________

This debate appears (to me at least) to centre on someone reading and remembering an individual comment made by coach McClennan when Pitts was initially signed in '09 and someone who missed it.

If it's any consolation, I didn't remember the comment either until I checked the piece.

Thanks for the clarification tvoc, but I would give up.

Gareth has obviously convinced himself that he was arguing on something else now, when he brought this up.



Not that anybody said such a thing, and the only issue was about whether the lads agreed development at signing stage was actually kept to, but it keeps Gareth happy anyway.

I think Pitts and Ambler might get a chance now with JJB injured for a few months

Why do things have to get so fickle and petty with you? I was prepared to just forget as it's not important, but you seem to want to bang on till someone says your right.

Look at the previous page that you completely ignored, and instead chose to change things that you believe was said. Yet throughout all pages nothing has been said to match what you are trying to go on about.

Let's see your answers to these questions.

Did McClennan state on Pitts signing that they saw him as a prop?
As this was a change of role for Pitts would this not have been agreed upon with the player before he signed?
As there was an agreement made with the player on this, you can call it what you want, a guarantee, a promise, and undertaking, a stipulation, a word of honour, an assurance, etc, but no player is going to go into it without some form of the above.

With the above in mind answer properly, have the club played Pitts as a prop? as he developed any differently to the player we signed three years ago?

The answers no. And that is all this petty argument was about. Never a critisim of the club, never a critisism of the player, never a critisism of the present coach, just a pointing out of circumstances, and a reason for why the player may well want to go out on loan to prove himself elsewhere.

Really, what is the issue?

You said the player was made a promise. I asked who made it and what was it. You still haven't answered. It's simple really.

What was promised to him?
Who promised it?
How are you privy to this?

That is all I am curious about. How can I be desperately keen to be right when I haven't made a proposition? I'm simply curious about the validity of your proposition.

If you answered the questions I posed then you would answer your own also.

OK, I will do.

Did McClennan state on Pitts signing that they saw him as a prop?

No, he said "“We will have to work with him to build him up, we see him as a young prop coming through, more than a back-rower". The pertinent words being "more than" and "we will have to work with him"

I see no promises there. The coach didn't say, I've promised to make Jay a prop. Simply an observation of his view going forward. No guarantees and an obvious statement there was work to be done. You've taken a huge leap to interpret that as a promise.

As this was a change of role for Pitts would this not have been agreed upon with the player before he signed?

I can't answer that because I don't agree that it was a change of role at all. I'm sure Pitts had propped before and knew he's prop again in the future, like many back rowers do. It's an interchangeable role. Ask JJB or Kirke. Delaney even packed down in the front row. Nor can I answer what was discussed because unlike you I do not draw huge inferences from short statements in press releases and misinterpret them. I suspect the only thing agreed upon and promised to young Pitts was a lot of hard work. I suspect that because all the press releases say it.

"As there was an agreement made with the player on this, you can call it what you want, a guarantee, a promise, and undertaking, a stipulation, a word of honour, an assurance, etc, but no player is going to go into it without some form of the above."

Now, I know this wasn't, technically, one of your questions but there you go again. You glibly state, "as there was an agreement made with the player on this" as if that is fact and then go on to base everything else on the facts you have made up or inferred from your understanding of a short comment in a press report. The only agreement we know of was the playing contract he signed. Do you think that stipulated he'd play prop?

"With the above in mind answer properly, have the club played Pitts as a prop? as he developed any differently to the player we signed three years ago?"

I don't think so and I don't think so. So what? Where does this take your claims of promises?

Here's the crux. The signed a young player. Said they envisaged him playing a certain position more than another (not exclusively) but made it clear he'd have a lot of work to do to get near the first team. It hasn't worked out.

No promises made, no promises broken.

That's the case for the prosecution, M'Lud.
Has the defence withdrawn its innocent plea?