I didn't notice Singleton for a large part of the match and thought he must have gone off injured but he came back on late in the game, not sure if he is carrying an injury.

Kirke has been quite frustrating this season, he's showed sparks of his strength in attack and I think that's shown in him being the highest average metre making forward (forgetting baldwinson). However his defence has been awful and the only reason his missed tackle count isn't higher is because he doesn't attempt one half the time. Hopefully the young prop we've just signed will knock him out of the team next year..

Juan - agendas aside.

Who would YOU, on present from with injuries permitting, rather select in our 17 - Kirke or Singleton?

Any one having a few quid on tonights game?

-32 seems like something we could cover if we turn up to play.

JP and Bailey are 5/1 to score at anytime which seems good value (Kirke only 7/2 if you fancy that!)

Or maybe 33/1 for a Burrow hat trick..

That's wrong, Kirke defensively is a decent proposition.

Moving forward with the ball is a slightly different proposition!!

No he isn't. He makes an adequate number of tackles. Nothing more, nothing less.

I said decent which he is, he misses very little defensively.

He's adequate, not decent. He's missed plenty recently.

I don't think so. London will be turn up after the semi final capitulation. Us by 16. It will fit in to the general modus operandi of many teams in the super league - bend over and get the lube against wigan, play like your lives depend on it against leeds.

No question, if fit, it would be Singleton who I would also pick on form ahead of Moore and even Bailey. However I also believe that the coaches have a responsibility for young forwards and in particular young props to not risk burnout. He must be given decent recovery time until his physique is fully developed.

For the record I have never been a big Kirke fan but I do accept the need for reliable experienced (and possibly inexpensive) forwards in the squad. Kirke is currently in poor form and is missing tackles which to be fair is unusual for him. Over the last two years he has improved his go forward and currently has the best metres per carry for a forward at 7.5m.

Where his performance falls down is in the number of carries he makes but without knowing the number of minutes he plays it is difficult to make comparisons or judgements. Because if his main role in the game plan is to be a reliable defender first and foremost around the ruck area as cover for the first line props to have a break then he will never have time to also make a high number of carries. Bailey has fullfilled a simliar role with more game time.

Earlier in the season Kirke was getting credit for his improvement. But since our spate of injuries he has not looked good at all as a starting prop. Maybe not being used to longer minutes his improved metres per carry have sapped some energy which has led to his lapses in defence? However I am sure he will regain his form and place in the game plan. He is a big unit and usually attracts 2 or 3 defenders and has kept his place in the squad because he has offered a regular error free defensive stint under several coaches.

Because Singleton offers a good all round game with impact I see him being used more in the Kylie role than the JP one in his early SL career.

My argument is always with those who jump on negative bandwaggons of blame without thinking things through.

I take it you haven't watched him over the last month or so.

So Singleton over Kirke it is? Of course it is. It's the logical choice at present.

Let's see how Mac plays it over the next few weeks.

I would agree with the selection of Singleton over Moore as well at present.

Hard to compare against Bails, as he does bigger minute stints (when compared to Singleton, Moore and Kirke) and fills a different role in the team.

I think a blend of JP, Kylie, Singelton and Bails stikes the right balance. A couple of bigger minute men and a couple for the shorter more powerful stints. You shouldn't just look a player in just their attributes but judge that also against the team and see what is the overall best option.

A fairly good summary for me.

My only additions to the general discussion being:
Quality of defence can't just be measured in number of tackles, there are many other things which are equally important. For example there is no stat for dominating a tackle, or being second man in and getting a man on his back. Whilst he may not do much for the first, he does a shed load of the second.
Secondly, I would say that Kirke is in the team for his defensive qualities. If this area has been poor recently (which it sounds like), then his place should be at risk. He certainly offer enough that makes him undroppable
I would take Singleton over Kirke, but do understand that they fulfil different roles on the pitch

Yes we are in agreement. Fitness, form and mental toughness will also be important issues come the big games. Your last paragraph is what I have been banging on about. The right balance of different talents to fulffill the game plan. Something that Big Mac believes in too!

Where's the fun there?