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Quote: KaeruJim "Fundamentally, how can a sport which struggles to achieve "critical mass" thrive when it's riven with in-fighting? I don't just mean in the UK, I mean the global game.

We need a root and branch approach to the whole sport globally, pooling resources and probably a move away from the slightly Norman structure we have now, of independent money men in their castles.

What you cannot afford in tough times is a lack of vision.'"


We have root & branch reviews every few years, all done in house. Like previous changes, it will be rejected after a few years and either another solution found or a return to the previous status quo.

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Quote: Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! "I agree with most of that but you are talking about small towns. Cas has a population of 40k yet they get around 8k crowds most weeks. If Leeds got that high a percentage of our poulation we would need a stadium bigger than Wembley.

All very well saying increase your revenue streams but how can they do that when they are working wonders to compete as they are.

I bet Cas' hospitality is booked to capacity most games now.

Theres no money in the game.'"

I know what you mean and agree to a large extent but it’s where I think we need to look beyond small towns otherwise 8k will always be our limit.

If Cas can’t reach further afield then we need clubs with bigger reach who can attract more money into the game.

A league of:
Leeds
Hull FC
Hull KR
Manchester
Newcastle
London
Wigan
Saints
Warrington
Catalans
Toulouse
Toronto

Looks a lot more likely to attract investment than:
Leeds
Hull FC
Hull KR
Wigan
Saints
Warrington
Wakefield
Huddersfield
Castleford
Salford
Featherstone
Leigh

Which is a league we could easily end up with if we don’t provide a proper direction for the sport.

If I were marketing or wanting to be associated with a sport, and I weren’t a scrap metal merchant or local fish and chip shop, then I know which league I’d prefer.

But either way, the cap dependant on income truly gives clubs the opportunity to prove their worth to the league. We could even include a rule that over so much spending on players incurs a 20% tax that is then spent on infrastructure for clubs in development areas or for marketing the sport. It then further restricts the ability of one club to
massively spend more than the others.

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Quote: Him "I know what you mean and agree to a large extent but it’s where I think we need to look beyond small towns otherwise 8k will always be our limit.

If Cas can’t reach further afield then we need clubs with bigger reach who can attract more money into the game.

A league of
For Manchester see current Salford team
For London - see current London team
For Newcastle - see Gateshead Thunder.
Toronto and Toulouse are unproven,
not sure I would be banking on these at the expense of established clubs.

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Quote: finglas "For Manchester see current Salford team
For London - see current London team
For Newcastle - see Gateshead Thunder.
Toronto and Toulouse are unproven,
not sure I would be banking on these at the expense of established clubs.'"

The problem is the current “established” clubs are only established at being a bit sh|t. I don’t think we should bank on them finding another 10k fans each.

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Quote: Him "The problem is the current “established” clubs are only established at being a bit sh|t. I don’t think we should bank on them finding another 10k fans each.'"

at what point does a club become established? London 40 years a professional club Gateshead/Newcastle over 22 years, Sheffield 36 years, or by established do we refer to "traditional clubs" Fact is the game as thrown so many expansion clubs under the bus over the years and missed so many opportunities. when the RL threw a million at gateshead hull merger why could they not just give it to Gateshead when Hull had over 120 years to get things right, same with Sheffield Huddersfield.

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Quote: Him "The problem is the current “established” clubs are only established at being a bit sh|t. I don’t think we should bank on them finding another 10k fans each.'"


I'm not, but given the experience of salford, london and Gateshead I don't see a new team bettering current teams and therefore don't throw these to the wolves (pardon the pun) on a fantasy trip.

A better bet would be to look at Widnes /Leigh, Bradford and possibly revisit Cumbria. With Cumbria it needs somebody up there with a vision that the fans of the area might latch on to rather than the RFL suggesting mergers which will then be resisted.

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The debate around the impossible problem has been around for decades, literally.

The salary cap is still relevant IMHO. If you just let nature take its course, yes Leeds might be competitive but you're looking at a 4-5 team Super League.

If you want more fans across the game, each side must be competitive. There is no magic formula to increase revenues significantly by traditional means.

Like I've said before, the game simply cannot afford in-fighting and a lack of vision. How do you fix that? United governing body for a start, and I've suggested a closer link with the Australian game too.
It is in everyone's best interest to make the international programme meaningful again, and let's face it we've been off the pace for as long as most of us can remember.

The game won't die in any case, but it can decline a fair bit still. We're already starting to look like a feeder competition for the NRL.

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The clubs have voted unanimously for the cap to remain as it is.

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Sensible outcome. No need to "Dumb down" the competition artificially. If the club owners don't want to (or can't) spend the cap then that's fine. Leeds have already said they will not operate up to the cap next year.

The biggest mistake in terms of cap has been the removal of the 50% of Turnover limit. RL needs clubs that grow their revenue to develop financial independence and improve their position to invest in grass roots and youth, as well as strengthen the negotiating hand for the future TV deals. It's clear with all the exceptions granted, those that run the game recognise the cap limit is too low in real terms.

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I was taking to a former Fax fan yesterday. Says when super league was introduced Fax were told to merge or fold, to accommodate the French team at the time. The game thus lost a massive heartland area.
Absolutely crazy imho. Think we need to stop looking at Toronto etc as the future, and go back yo grass roots...

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Quote: Charlie Sheen "The clubs have voted unanimously for the cap to remain as it is.'"


Unanimously is interesting, considering that last week it was 6-5 in favour of lowering it.

Highly likely that the Yorkshire clubs were won around by the threat of the league splitting and then being left in the bottom half, where there was less money?

The way this unfolded, especially with Wire waving their wallet about in the middle of it, with the signing of Inglis, certainly strongly suggests this?

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Quote: Shabino "I was taking to a former Fax fan yesterday. Says when super league was introduced Fax were told to merge or fold, to accommodate the French team at the time. The game thus lost a massive heartland area.
Absolutely crazy imho. Think we need to stop looking at Toronto etc as the future, and go back yo grass roots...'"



how come they did neither then?

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Quote: batleyrhino "Sensible outcome. No need to "Dumb down" the competition artificially. If the club owners don't want to (or can't) spend the cap then that's fine. Leeds have already said they will not operate up to the cap next year.

The biggest mistake in terms of cap has been the removal of the 50% of Turnover limit. RL needs clubs that grow their revenue to develop financial independence and improve their position to invest in grass roots and youth, as well as strengthen the negotiating hand for the future TV deals. It's clear with all the exceptions granted, those that run the game recognise the cap limit is too low in real terms.'"
Has GH said that or did he mean it would be hard for most clubs to operate on the full cap?

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Quote: fanstanningley "Has GH said that or did he mean it would be hard for most clubs to operate on the full cap?'"


I'm sure I saw it on a twitter post from Peter Smith, perhaps in the article itself. Seemed to be "quoting the club".

I suspect this is why he eventually folded on the Cap limit topic, didn't really matter if he knew he couldn't drag everyone else down to his level...

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Quote: Shabino "I was taking to a former Fax fan yesterday. Says when super league was introduced Fax were told to merge or fold, to accommodate the French team at the time. The game thus lost a massive heartland area.
Absolutely crazy imho. Think we need to stop looking at Toronto etc as the future, and go back yo grass roots...'"


Halifax Blue Soxs were amongst the original teams in Super League other teams that have since slipped into lower divisions are Oldham Bears, Sheffield Eagles and Workington Town plus Paris folded.

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