What utter bull$hit.

It is due to this management that we are arguably the best run club in SL, and the most successful on the field over the last 7 years.

Yes, Diskin and Buderus didn't work. Having said that we were only trying to do what every other club was doing with 2 hookers. Should we have signed Buderus? maybe not, but if helps us to two more titles in the next two years I daresay opinion on that will change.

Are you seriously suggesting it was a mistake to let BJB go to Harlequins? Compare his performances on the wing in 2009 and that of last week plus how comforatble he looked at fullback at Hull and that should be enough to show what a great decision it was by the club. He would not have gained the same exposure to first team rugby at Leeds.

Broughton. Again, are you serious? What makes you think we should have kept him? Should we also have kept Peter Fox who's had a decent run since leaving Leeds. Perhaps we could play them on the 4th and 5th wing alongside Hall, Smith and BJB. After all so many wingers is a much better use of the cap than 2 hookers.

Who would you have played at centre throughout last year? I agree Delaney looked for all the world a perfect fit for 2nd row but he also did a decent job for us at right centre all year. Now I'm unsure if you're criticising Bluey or hetherington, or both???

As for Ambler and Hardaker - on another thread I have posted my hypothetical Grand Final team. There are at least 7 players outside that 17 who would be in a lot of SL sides. This shows what depth we have. I don't think either of the above would be close to the 19 man squad if everyone was fit. Therefore they are gaining useful experience rather than playing in a poor under 20s competition at Leeds. It makes perfect sense.

Bet you worship god and david cameron in the same way as the hierarchy at the rhinos ... N ' est ce pas ?

Just read back your own post to see how silly you are.

Sticking a French phrase in your post doesn't make your opinion superior. I stand by everything I said but especially the bits about jones bishop and the two loanees this year. What would they have possibly gained from playing in our under 20s every week?

Was it not you who suggested a move for Lee smith to stand off??? It seems the silly posts are all coming from the same place

Has anyone ever seen GOD and GH in the same room?

Good post there Andy!
There are always consequences from any decision, and occasionally one may come back and bite you on the ass. Broughton may be a case in point, but as Norwich would say C'est la Vie.

Ok I've got nothing better to do at the moment...so flippancy aside (surely none of us should take this too seriously after all) I will endeavour to debate as if this is a critical matter.

In the commercial world (which Leeds RL is part of) before making a [imajor[/i investment (Buderus) you ensure proper research is carried out first to ensure it complements your assets (specifically Diskin).
The major issue was the persistence in trying to implement a policy that clearly - some considerable time ago - was not going to be the most productive use of the new superior asset.

You state BJB "would not have gained the same exposure to first team rugby at Leeds"...why not ? Who are you saying was immune to de-selection ? The guy is now TWENTY TWO....he was not some young kid vulnerable to too early a confidence shattering baptism. The club should have had more faith in him and let somebody else go (Donald perhaps).

Ref Peter Fox I did state "recent years"...I guess it depends how you define 'recent' ?

Broughton I repeat is a specialist winger...so of Hall, Smith (a [inon-specialist[/i winger who had left to join Wasps RU !! ) and BJB (another [inon-specialist[/i winger who you have already stated you were happy to see shipped out to Harlequins !!) I would suggest there was NOT a plethora of wingers at the club and I would have, yes, thus retained his services

The question then about Delaney becomes irrelevant. With Broughton and BJB retained there would have been no need to secure the services of an average-at-best Aussie centre.

As for last season there were other slightly less bad options such as Smith (who has better pace and elusiveness) or even Ablett (who can at least look to draw his man and pass to his outside team-mate) at centre. The folly in persisting with a hugely capable second rower at centre was another faux pas !! ..Please excuse my love of French phases.

You state neither Hardaker nor Ambler "would be close to the 19 man squad if everyone was fit". Again..why not ? If they are good enough they should be....and I believe that they are good enough. Kirke had a good game against Hull FC but Ambler IMO is the better player to have retained. Senior should have made way for Hardaker and the other 'young uns' if there are luxuries we cannot afford to keep under the cap.

As for suggesting Smith at stand off ....I have remarked previously he reminds me of Neil Hague who had a similar versatility without ever commanding a regular spot. I still say one day you will see him paying there. I might be wrong....none of us are infallible....INCLUDING the Leeds Rhinos' heirarchy !!!!

The point here is nobody at Leeds Rhinos does anything to deliberately harm the club. Every decision is a judgement call and like every other business some calls will be wrong.

If you employ someone to do a job in a senior position you cannot then micro-manage them. McClennan was employed as coach and he thought the team needed rotating nines, Hetherington had to back that decision and went out and found the best he could. It didn't work but unless you give it go you will never know.

Let's face it if a player of the quality of Buderus come available you would definitely be interested - anyone who thinks he cannot enhance a team is wrong in my opinion. It was the right call to get him and he has shown since he has been here what a top player he is.

Gareth doesn't like quality players with lots of natural ability especially Aussies, he prefers local lads who work hard to maximise their abilities even at much lower levels - perhaps mirroring his own playing experiences. As fans we seldom get to see the very top Aussies on a weekly basis and Gareth can see although he will never admit it the gulf in ability between these two players. Diskin was very fortunate that he played in side that had the likes of Webb, Sinfield, McGuire, Peacock. Those players made the difference not Diskin - the side won the last three titles inspite of not because of Matt Diskin's involvement. Diskin was like Kirke, Kylie, Donald lucky to be surrounded by a few outstanding players. McClennan had realised the position needed a boost and brought Buderus in good move. If Buderus had stayed fit in year one Diskin would have gone a year ago.

On Delanney he was a centre in the most intense competition in RL he was never considered a back row forward. The reason he is played in the back row is the need to fit Watkins in due to general lack of pace in the side, the need for a faster attacking option and the insistence on play Senior . Delanney would play centre in virtually every other SL side.

McClennan had decided that Donald and Hall were his wingers and Webb his FB with Watkins as the back up so BJB was unlikely to get much game time so they loaned him out so he could play at a higher level every week - right decision. Having done that it would have been morally unfair to have brought him back when the injuries hit. The same has happened to Ambler - McDermott sees Kylie, Cross etc as his props so Ambler's opportunities will be limited. Broughton was no brainer, simply not good enough.

On Zac Hardaker it is very early and he is only 18/19. Under Powell he will learn a lot so should be a positive once again.

Hetherington is nobody's fool - he gets a lot more right than he ever gets wrong IMO

God is an invisible creation of man and has no apparent father.......so might be irreverently called something else. I am sure we would not label GH with the same lack of respect.

He's not done a bad job...despite his all expenses paid holidays down under disguised as useless recruitment drives: Buderus for Ellis; shipping out BJB to recruit Delaney and the latest..... shipping out Ambler to recruit Cross. Hmmmm.

Thank you for the dose of reality compared to the others who indulge in long and continuing flights of fancy and rounds of Top Trumps where public opinion voting systems would apparently pick the team each week - and while at the same time complaining about individual "star" signings the same people are clamouring for signatures on contracts throughout the winter in a series of "Why haven't we signed everyone available" type of post.

I think I remember a post from Richie early on after we signed Buderus that summed it up for me. Along the lines of, Leeds had the opportunity to sign a quality player (Buderus) which doesn't come along that often and did.

I can see why Leeds signed him, and most of us could see how the two hookers failed to play together. The problem on this board was that every time (or almost) the subject was mentioned there was the argument about wether Diskin or Buderus should be dumped and who was better (and I admit to doing it as well). As it actually turned out in year one, if we had signed Buderus and gotten rid of Diskin then we would have been in schtuck due to Buderus's injury problems . Last year didn't work well at all with both of them fit, and this year we may really be seeing the World beater Buderus in a Leeds shirt. 2 out of 3 years not bad. I'll settle for that if he has a stormer.

I agree..nobody has deliberately gone out to harm the club...AND I do believe GH is the best thing to happen to the club in many decades.

My point is simply that mistakes can be made and nobody should hero-worship anybody or anything whatever their status. Some on here seem to think everything the club does is beyond reproach and we should all slavishly toe the line in due gratitude and unquestioning servitude to a dogma.

Agreed but we as fans are not infallible and our views are not gospel, we do not have all the answers and just like the club we should be prepared to have our judgements/views questioned and accept it as a consequence of putting fingers to keyboard?

Even if that were true, does it elevate them above scrutiny and or criticism. Are they infallable, can no decision ever be questioned. The discussion is not in the round it is quite targetted.



Leeds named St Helens (Cunningham and Roby) specifically as their blueprint then signed one of the best hookers of his generation. So far so good. The only problem was Leeds already had a fine hooker capable of taking the lead role and what they actually needed was the sparky game changer. They ended up with arguably a worse situation than they originally had.

Had Diskin still been on the books we likely as not would have lost one of the opening two fixtures, possibly both.



That would be difficult to compare with something that didn't happen. There is no disputing Jones-Bishop will have gained valuable experience at Harlequins just that while Leeds were filling in with Bush, Coady and Clarkson on the wing that rather suggests there would also have been an opportunity for him to gain some of that SL exposure at Headingley. Instead we had Coach McClennan stating that Jones-Bishop would not be recalled (after Donald's early season injury) because 'he's primarily a full-back.' Additionally perhaps that would have required Donald to earn the shirt on his return and equally perhaps Leeds could have left Smith suffering in excile instead of throwing him an expensive(?) lifeline.



The Broughton situation goes back to the decision to extend Donald's contract in mid 2009 when his form didn't merit an extension and he'd indicated he was considering returning home as he had a post RL career waiting. Or in reality the quota rules were tightening and he no longer was a justifiable use of a spot. Then he somewhat surprisingly became exempt under the quota regulations (thanks to Stanley Gene and Simon Finnegan challenging the RFL's new quota rules) and he stayed on for a year crowding out Broughton's and or Jones-Bishop's opportunity there in 2010.

The rest is not really an issue for me as Delaney had completely missed my radar, Ambler I'm unconvinced by and Hardaker I still haven't seen enough to judge. Why effectively replace Broughton (already invested in, own Academy produced, good understanding with his Academy centre Watkins) with Hardaker though .... More expensive (signing on fee and contract?) and completely unproven at SL level. Broughton last year playing in an often outclassed team scored tries against seven of the eventual top eight, gained selection for the England Quad Nations train on squad, played in the England trial game for the Garry Purdham fund and again was on the scoreboard V St Helens on Friday night.

I have to say that I agree with all your comments. Personally would like to see Hardaker proving himself in Super League but playing in a comepetive Championship as opposed to ther under 20s is much better. Just like shipping Amor out is the best option for all parties.

At the time signing Buderus was probably not the best option as we needed to replace a 2nd rower and we kept a two hooker system for far two long but like all good management (Alex Ferguson) we have been ruthless and kept the better hooker and I hope that he comes close to realising the undoubted ability and skill that has seen him captain Austrailia (I think) on a consistent basis and not just over two matches.

I am fully behind the Leeds managemtn and even more excited for the rest of the season as I think it seems like McDermott will back his decisions and play youth over experience. I hope its not just a one off.

Also very pleased to read on Twitter that Delaney enjoyed playing in the 2nd row. I hope his injury isn't too serious and he continues as he did on Friday night. He will only get better in that position.

Without trying to contradict my previous comments, the players filling in for Leeds last season were clearly not up to scratch and in all honesty having Jones-Bishop playing for Leeds would of been excellent but I do feel that he gained more experience week in week out at Harlequins. Last season was last season and is over and this season we are now reaping the benefits of that experience he gained. Having suffered from illness for the entirety of the 2010 Super League season I am excited by this season but feel that we should be enjoying watching BJB this season and not dwelling on the mistakes.

These are just my thoughts and since moving to London I don't have anyone to discuss rugby with so I'm not disrespecting your opinions I'm just offering my views.

I agree to an extent with what you are saying. In hindsight Buderus might turn out to be a excellent signing, or one we just didn't need. The next couple of years will show us that. It was clearly an awkward situation with Diskin being an integral member of the squad and I daresay a fairly popular one amongst his peers. I think both hookers would have operated better playing 60+ minutes and at times we did accommodate Diskin. Would dropping him have caused ructions in the dressing room? I guess we'll never know. A brave decision needed making and was made. We now have the better option available to use and hopefully he will deliver.




Age can be deceptive when it comes to RL players. Some, for example Sinfield and Walker, develop very early. Others make their mark in the game much later. He was clearly behind Donald, Hall and probably Watkins for a wing spot and is primarily a full back. He was never going to gain much first team action at Leeds in his prime position and so the club, obviously thinking a lot of him sent him on loan to develop, which he quite clearly has. WOuld he have gained more playing 15 games on the wing for Leeds - I personally don't think he would.




I confess to not having seen much of him before he left but the club obviously decided his value. He could get a bigger contract and the chance of first team rugby elsewhere and took it. Good luck to the kid but I'm buying that Leeds made a shocking decision on the back of one decent season for Salford. DOn't forget Leeds had seen him play for Hull in SL so had that to judge him on.




Yes there would. As neither of the above are close to being centres. WOuld you have been happy with another year of Ablett as centre, thus restricting his development as a back rower, or with Watkins being thrown in every week?




I agree whole heartedly on Delaney as a 2nd rower. He has all the attrributes for it. There weren't many games when Smith, Hall and Donald were all available until the end of the year. That move then could have caused more disruption. For Ablett see above.. and he was one of our better players at times last year. Leave him where he is!



Who of Cross, Bailey, Kylie, Burgess, Peacock and Kirke would you have AMbler in front of? Only Kirke at a guess, which means he is 6th choice prop forward when we only play we 3 or 4. He wouldn't have been involved much bar a lot of injuries. Hardaker would be behind BJB, Smith and Hall and possibly Watkins. Again, he wouldn't have seen much action.



He's got nowhere near the skill set required to play stand off - it'll never happen!!!