Personally I don’t believe in sacking smith at this stage of the season. Unfortunately if we are mid table half way through the season he would have to walk the plank. Let’s not forget that last season was the transition period, he supposedly got rid of the deadwood ,so this season was to be a springboard to success. It’s the manner of last night’s defeat that irks supporters, we never at any stage looked capable of beating Saints. Take Newmans brilliant individual try out the equation and we have only managed to score one try over two games. You have to credit Saints as a club after the Cunningham debacle they have completely rebuilt the club. Two highly successful coaches turned the club around, looking at the Saints squad compared to ours. Across the board most of the Saints players are superior to ours, I am assuming that both clubs spend up to the salary cap limit. If that’s the case it’s a damming indictment of the management and coaching staff at Leeds. Obviously it’s still early on in the season so time to turn things around. Cas won’t be an easy game as it’s the cup final for them.

since cunningham saints coaching appointments have been faultless.
ours have been shambolic

Smith has very strong views on how the game should be played. Which is fine. But the definition of madness is continuing to do the same thing but expecting a different result. Playing soft up the middle and lacking real structure is just not seen from the best sides. We've played that way for a season and a bit and its not working and looks like only being a bit more successful against mid-table teams than last year, which is mainly down to us having some better quality players in the squad.

The way to learn from this defeat is to look at what Sts do better than us, and not just how they get away with things. They do have better players in some positions, but the way they play gives them much more chance of winning than us. Systematic, physical, looking to win collisions and field position. Stuff every successful side I can remember does well. I cannot remember a team trying to play high risk off the cuff rugby all the time succeeding for very long or in the biggest matches. RL is a simple possession and territory game for the most part. You cannot short-cut your way around the basics.

Okay the fact you accept that that the decisions are small and subjective leads me to one of two conclusions;
1. that Saints fans are equally capable at pointing at small decisions subjectively, and therefore on balance there is no bias because the reality is referees are always going to be somewhere in between
2. You don’t accept Saints fans are able to point at decisions they subjectively think are wrong, so accept your opinion is subjective in Saints indiscretion but objective on Leeds … which would be quite the position to take.
Since you admit you are in the first group, I can’t see how you can subsequently complain of a grand conspiracy. Your coach (and some fans) complain about a slow ruck, yet as a saints fan all I can see is Saints dominating tackles over and over, with very few Leeds players trying to support their own team in winning the ruck. Bentley is your best at this and always has been one of his strengths, but compare that to Mata’utia who basically turned several plays in to mauls at times to help the ball carrier build momentum.

As for 2023 disciplinary, between rounds 1 and 17, Saints were the most penalised team by the MRP by a factor of 2 to 3 times the next nearest worst offenders. If I recall correctly Saints had had 11 incidents deemed ban worth in that time frame with other teams (like Huddersfield) sat on 1 incident. There were a huge number of discrepancy, such as the RFL bringing in medical professionals into the Knowles Easter ban for the tackle on Cooper, a precedent that hadn’t been seen before and hasn’t been seen since. I can’t speak for what happened in Leeds appeals, but based on the bits I read about the Newman ban for gobbing off, the RFL are right in saying they were frivolous because Leeds didn’t provide any new evidence; your defence (at least publicly) was “nuh-uh” which isn’t the basis of an appeal. What Saints did with Knowles, and other appeals is evidence how the RFL didn’t follow their own process, which is why the ban couldn’t stand. The penny seems to have dropped for most clubs in this regard now.

As for the Lomax incident; presumably your as equally disappointed in Bentley for taking about 10 seconds to decide whether to milk a crusher tackle or not as he hovered between going to clutch his head and play the ball as half the Leeds team screamed at the ref?

I agree with Sgy Loiner in that Bentley would look a different player in a good pack. He is on yhe small side but always gives 100% and sets the example in terms of committment and effort.Hes not international class as hes not big enough at that level but hes not Leeds problem. We have players with size they just don't play to it.Sangare same weight and size as Walmsley!
Holroyd over a stone haevier than Matty Lees!
McDonnell half a stone heavier than Morgan Knowles.
The saints men run harder tackle harder and play longer minutes than the leeds players named. They may be more experienced but its their attitude that is the biggest difference. Bentley is never going to win us a big game but with the right players and attitude around him he will keep us in games with his defence or as in last night help keep the score down!

The other way of looking at it is the Leeds players are not good enough and never will be or the coaching and mindset preparation is not good enough. One or other has to change!

They wouldn’t mate. Saint’s fans wouldn’t want that either. Their centres and wingers are better. Not physically what Saints would be looking for. They have higher standards…..

I'm not a computer hacker so I don't know how to look at people's bank accounts to see how much they earn. So I can only guess. Generally people with more experience tend to be payed more. My point was [as you well know] we should have had a coach with top grade experience.

Metres or all very well but doses he ever break a tackle?

If the chopping block isn't currently being prepared for Smiths head, there is something wrong.

The club have thrown a considerable amount of money and faith in recruiting the players that Smith wanted to bring in, but we do not look any better for it. Baring the big name signings, our recruitment this year is flawed. We lack any decent cover for a winger that is plagued with injuries, and are still way too lightweight in the pack. I got criticised on here last year for saying the pack was too lightweight, and I still see this to be true. Even the heavier forwards don't seem to play to their size.

The onfield tactics are still subpar, too. We are losing more yards than we gain every set, meaning we are constantly in the wrong end of the pitch, and when we do get in the oppositions half we fail to turn that possession into points time and time again. We seem to only be able to score from deep. Leeds have a backline that should be feared, but we can't seem to finish, and the forwards seem incapable of being able to consistently get us into a position to pile on pressure.

The team selection last night was doomed to fail. We are already back to forcing square pegs into round holes. When I saw the team sheet, I knew the odds were against us. If Momirovski was being picked, why not keep Roberts on the wing, drop Martin back into SR, and play Mom in the centres where he has proven to be a good link between Newman and Handley? Then we release a bench spot for Goudemand, too. I don't even think Roberts was utilised from the bench, was he?

Everything points to Rohan Smith being at fault to me. Poor recruitment, poor selection, inefficient tactics, daft plays forcing errors, yardage lost through passive defence, yardage not gained from talented players looking clueless.... the list goes on.

If GH isn't already keeping an eye out for other coaching options, then he has wasted his money bringing in the likes of Croft and Ackers. They are proving to be wasted under Rohan Smiths coaching. I can't see things improving drastically when the better weather comes like some are hoping.

Apart from the Play off semi final at Wigan a couple of years ago!!

Anyway, you’re spot on mate, it’s easy to listen to idiots on TV who call him a nobody but then big up McIllorum in the same breath. What Bentley lacks in physical stature, he sure makes up for in effort and has a heart the size of a dustbin lid.

The difference here is that Lomax lied. The incident just didn't happen. There was no punch. He made it up. He lied. And the official, the weak minded fool, accepted his word.

You can't rebuild an entire team in two years in a salary capped sport, it will take years to sort out the mess we're in. The only way to be at the top is through academy players (as proved by Leeds formerly, and Saints + Wigan now) and then the purchased players are the icing on the cake. Sangare, McDonnell, Holdroyd, Gannon, Hudson & TNW could be a great pack, but only if they live up to their potential in 3 years time. Can't have everything now, just doesn't work like that.

I don’t want everything now, I just want to see us playing a style of rugby that can have consistently good results if played to the right standard, rather than basketball on a rugby pitch. Smith’s playing style would need the World XIII to be successful, never mind the players we currently have at Leeds. He’s not going to be successful because he’s so wedded to this style of rugby he can’t see or accept that the current (or upcoming) playing squad will ever be able to play it to a high enough level consistently to win anything.