No mate. I don't like American Football.

No, Furners “job” is to get these players up to speed and if not at least up to a level where they can do a job. Tony Smith took Leeds back to the basics before adding in greater responsibilities as the team grew.

Tony Smith never had to go back, he was handed a team ready to be winners and a desire to be winners, from the brilliant development Powell had done, and he took it on from that. That’s the big difference with us now.

In 2002 we managed to get rid of the likes of Ryan Sheridan, Andy Hay and Karl Pratt even though all were contracted - Daryl Powell no less made the call (he seems to have repaired his relationship with Sheridan since!). news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 339845.stm Why can't we do this now? One potentially big difficulty is bringing in superior replacements mid-season - but if it's a question of making a bit more cap space available, now is surely the time to be ruthless with one or two?

In 2002 we managed to get rid of the likes of Ryan Sheridan, Andy Hay and Karl Pratt even though all were contracted - Daryl Powell no less made the call (he seems to have repaired his relationship with Sheridan since!). news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 339845.stm Why can't we do this now? One potentially big difficulty is bringing in superior replacements mid-season - but if it's a question of making a bit more cap space available, now is surely the time to be ruthless with one or two?

I heard the team doctor left. The same source mentioned unrest in the dressing room. I got this second hand but it echoes comments of previous poster.

What right have any of the squad to spit the dummy? Most if them have shown little fight and low quality for over a year. Those guys need to shape up or stop pretending to be full time professionals.

The other thing in the back of my mind (I won't necessarily call it a concern) is how many people saw Furner coming here as a long term move, and not just putting himself in the shop window for a head coach role in the NRL? At the moment his stock there must surely be dropping and a relegation dog fight would be no good, so could we get to a stage where he walks away citing lack of support/investment from owners to protect his own future?

Which is exactly why the club need to back Furner. I state again we should have gone with Griffin in first place, for the tougher approach from the start, but now we should back the choice when the problem now is clearly players.

Most of them have looked awful under 3 different coaches. Its pretty clear the players are the vast majority of the problem.

The players and the coaching has been a problem along with recruitment . The show me the money agent stated he would send his clients to Cas because Powell would improve the player where as Mac would not . Hence Joe average players are seen to become better there than they have at the Rhinos . Whether or not Furner can improve anyone is yet to be seen .

Agreed - however bad the coaching might be (and I don’t necessarily think it is or was so bad), the experienced players have no excuses for the lazy performances of the last few seasons. They need a long hard look in the mirror (and some P45s).

A model of how to recruit the correct way is Warrington. You have a basic squad of good players (both recruited and academy) and are constantly adding QUALITY players to the roster.

A great example in contrast with the Wolves and Rhinos is the closed season recruitment of a half back. We sign Tuimoala Lolohea and they sign Blake Austin. Or in other words, a gamble versus proven quality.

Danny Buderus was an example of us getting it right,

Warrington have won nothing in ages for all their "excellent" recruitment

Neither have Cas under Powell. Leeds have to find their own way (again). There are still people around the squad who know what it takes to win the big games - but we need to build a decent squad first.

Probably the worst thing that happened to this team in the last 5 years was winning the 2017 GF. Yes, it was great at the time, but it was also just about one of the poorest grand finals ever, and seriously papered over the deficiencies of our team, especially with McGuire leaving - the main reason we won the GF in the first place.