To score just 51 points in four games is extremely worrying to say the least. On that basis so far we don't stand much chance when we meet Wigan, wire and hull

This rot began way back, for a number of years now it has become apparent that we struggle to score from within the opponents 20 meter area with a lack of structure and, generally, a poor kicking game. Even in the much fabled 2015, some of the games I saw mid-season were an absolute shambles. The saving grace was the sheer grit, will and determination that saw a group come together to fight for each other.
As things have progressed it seems that a lot of the management of that came down to two senior members who are no longer with the club.
We are now left with a team with little cohesion, no plan B, little flair and zero belief. The heart that was lacking from last night's performance was there to see in the warm up, which was half-d to say the least.
There are players in the squad who are not fit to wear the shirt and some long standing servants who need to recognise it is time to move on.
But the first and, ultimately, the most important change is to relieve Mr McDermott of his position.

Last night I watch Downfall for those who have not seen it, its a German film about the last few days in Berlin in 1945, the actor who played Hitler reminded me so much of McDermott on Thursday evening coming out with daft statements and not be able to see the reality of the situation. Brian do the decent thing,

Loving the Downfall reference, I defended Mac last year, through the crap, thinking it has to get better, but he deffo needs to go now. We should be 0-4, can't score at all, defence has completely given up, it's like we've had no off season to prepare. Even with the injuries, I've never been more disgusted with a performance from Leeds.

A few on here are mentioning Cleary as a possible replacement, very unlikely to happen because 1) I'm not sure GH will give Mac the boot 2) His time with a young, injury hit squad at Penrith means his reputation in NRL is intact (he's always a favourite to replace the next sacked coach).

New to the forum by the way, hi to everybody

Looking at the next run of fixtures Brian can expect to be an OBE unless things turn around massively.

The time to act is now.

I *hope* that GH now accepts this, and is biding his time to find the right replacement. This gives BMD a few games to regain some semblance of pride, before a new name is announced.

Any incremental improvements made in the first few games count for nothing after a loss like that so early in the season, which was as bad as any seen in 2016. Much has been made of our much improved defence - what happened to that?

On behalf of all rhinos supporters could I welcome St Helens into the fall from high club. I expect Bradford bulls as the founder of this exclusive club ,would also like to extend heartiest congratulations.

Most of our best defenders were sat in the stands, you could name a whole new set of forwards with what was missing

Galloway - Burrow - Garbutt
Ablett - Ward
JJB
+ Ferres

That is a pretty lame excuse - neither Galloway nor Ferres have played this year so have made no contribution to the "So Called" improved defence.

As soon as they came up against a decent attacking side it showed the defence hadn't improved - in fact was that the biggest loss during the SL era?

I know they haven't played, that doesn't mean they aren't a loss to the side.

Would you rather have Mullally and Walters starting or Galloway and Ferres?

But most of our tries were conceeded on the edge where the backs defend, some people holding off and others jamming in, Cas wont score so many easy tries all season.

Forwards decide who wins the game, and back decide by how much. It's always been the same even though the game itself has changed.